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Author Topic: Stemmons Freeway sign  (Read 7200 times)

Offline Mike Orr

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Stemmons Freeway sign
« on: January 30, 2018, 05:17:22 AM »
Were there holes in the Stemmons Freeway Sign ? Jim Marrs says that the Freeway sign was taken 
down because of the bullet holes in the sign . I had asked the 6th floor curator Gary Mack about the sign several years ago, if he had knowledge of the sign being taken down due to  bullet holes . His e-mail reply was that he knew of no holes in the sign. Anyone have any knowledge of bullet holes in the sign on 11-22-63 .

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Stemmons Freeway sign
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2018, 06:00:39 AM »
Were there holes in the Stemmons Freeway Sign ? Jim Marrs says that the Freeway sign was taken 
down because of the bullet holes in the sign . I had asked the 6th floor curator Gary Mack about the sign several years ago, if he had knowledge of the sign being taken down due to  bullet holes . His e-mail reply was that he knew of no holes in the sign. Anyone have any knowledge of bullet holes in the sign on 11-22-63 .

I think I read somewhere that the Stemmons sign was taken down to avoid having it stolen as a souvenir

Offline Robert Reeves

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Re: Stemmons Freeway sign
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2018, 01:13:28 PM »
Very good informative website/PDF link about the Stemmons Freeway, has a section about the sign itself, too, below

http://dallasfreeways.com/dfwfreeways/pdf/Dallas-Fort-Worth-Freeways-book-05-20140803.pdf

By Oscar Slotboom, not an assassination researcher site, seems like it's unbiased research for a book about the Dallas freeway.  The rest of the website http://www.dfwfreeways.com/



« Last Edit: January 30, 2018, 01:15:19 PM by Robert Reeves »

Offline Allan Fritzke

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Re: Stemmons Freeway sign
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2018, 07:43:18 AM »
Were there holes in the Stemmons Freeway Sign ? Jim Marrs says that the Freeway sign was taken 
down because of the bullet holes in the sign . I had asked the 6th floor curator Gary Mack about the sign several years ago, if he had knowledge of the sign being taken down due to  bullet holes . His e-mail reply was that he knew of no holes in the sign. Anyone have any knowledge of bullet holes in the sign on 11-22-63 .

I don't think it is a question of bullet holes it is a question of umbrella man. If you look at Jerry Organ's lightbox frames or Costella's frames (both from the Zapruder Film), you will see an obvious discrepancy in the placement of the "umbrella man' with regards to his placement on these picture/frames compared to the NY Times rendition.     Their frames (Lightbox & Costella) at Z220-Z224 show in the Zapruder film the placement of the umbrella man "in FRONT of the sign".  THIS is clearly visible showing the umbrella man with a a partially hidden umbrella at the front of this sign - 1/2 alongside and 1/2 hidden at the front!  How would this video capture compare to their made up rendition from the other side of the road where they show an elevated sign and an umbrella man well behind the post?    Look at

                                           


Their rendition shows an elevated street sign,  the umbrella man well below and behind the sign.  It is far below the Zapruder film!!    Obviously, this discrepancy needs to be rectified by sign removal!   In that way you can't prove the umbrella man was in "FRONT"  of the sign as the Zapruder film shows!  That would have meant the umbrella man was within 10 ft of the President!  Their renditon shows an umbrella man way in the distance!!  NY TIMES would like you to believe that he was an insignificant bystander trying to wave his umbrella to make a point. I might add that the umbrella is motionless and in front of sign in a strong wind scenario as compared to other across the street so called videos!!  The "Cuban" beside is busy waving his arms - begging for attention at the time of neck shot!  MUST get rid of that sign as it adds to contradiction in the storyline!  They don't even show the Cuban alongside on their storyline!!!!!!  The scene they "draw" does not match the Zapruder film and is FICTIONAL!
« Last Edit: February 01, 2018, 07:58:29 AM by Allan Fritzke »

Online Duncan MacRae

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Re: Stemmons Freeway sign
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2018, 08:05:31 AM »
How would this video capture compare to their made up rendition from the other side of the road where they show an elevated sign and an umbrella man well behind the post?

                                                             Umbrella Man, Louie Steven Witt, is seen in front of the Stemmons sign.


                            In your example, you are mistaking Motorcycle Cop Bobby Hargis's Motorcycle Aerial for one of the Stemmons sign's posts.
                                                          This misnomer creates the illusion that Mr Witt  is behind the Stemmons sign

                                         

Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Stemmons Freeway sign
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2018, 09:53:52 AM »
Were there holes in the Stemmons Freeway Sign ? Jim Marrs says that the Freeway sign was taken 
down because of the bullet holes in the sign . I had asked the 6th floor curator Gary Mack about the sign several years ago, if he had knowledge of the sign being taken down due to  bullet holes . His e-mail reply was that he knew of no holes in the sign. Anyone have any knowledge of bullet holes in the sign on 11-22-63 .

The Stemmons Freeway sign is still present days later, as seen in photos taken in the days following the assassination.  If the sign was removed to hide the bullet holes, strange that "they" would wait until the entire world saw it first before taking it down.

I believe this photo was taken five days later, sign still present...


Offline Robert Reeves

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Re: Stemmons Freeway sign
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2018, 01:28:52 PM »
From the link I posted. http://dallasfreeways.com/dfwfreeways/pdf/Dallas-Fort-Worth-Freeways-book-05-20140803.pdf








Quote
This established a reasonable confidence that the Stemmons
sign was removed between May 24 and June 24,
1964. There was the possibility that press reports or police
reports could identify an event which could be associated
with the sign removal. A review of both the Dallas Morning
News and the Dallas Times Herald for all dates between
May 24 and October 3, 1964, did not uncover any reports
of events at Dealey Plaza which could be associated with
the sign removal. A search of police records for this period
also turned up nothing. The Stemmons sign had vanished
without a trace in any historical record, and the only evidence
consisted of photographs which relied on analysis
for dating.

Quote
The first anniversary photos and news film provide a definitive
and conclusive date for the removal of the Stemmons
Freeway sign if there are any doubts about the evidence
for removal by June 24, 1964. The first anniversary photos
also deepened the mystery for the Thornton sign. Photos
show the Thornton sign was modified with the addition of
a new section of sign above the original sign. The available
photos on the anniversary date show only the backside of
the sign and the color of the backside is very light, close to
white. In photos from the period immediately after the assassination,
the backside is much darker. The color change
strongly indicates that the original sign was entirely replaced.
A high-resolution scan of negative #1 appears to show the
newly added section of sign, indicating that the Thornton
sign was modified on or around the same time as the Stemmons
sign removal.
So this presented new questions: What was added to
the top of the Thornton Freeway sign? If the entire sign was
replaced, what did it say? Without photographic evidence of
the front of the Thornton sign, it is impossible to make any
definitive statements. But it seems likely that the modification
of the Thornton sign allowed it to perform the role of
the removed Stemmons Freeway sign, perhaps with the text
?Stemmons Freeway? on the newly added section.
The next questions remaining to be answered are the removal
date of the Thornton Freeway sign and the installation



Quote
The Mystery Deepens
The first anniversary photos and news film provide a definitive
and conclusive date for the removal of the Stemmons
Freeway sign if there are any doubts about the evidence
for removal by June 24, 1964. The first anniversary photos
also deepened the mystery for the Thornton sign. Photos
show the Thornton sign was modified with the addition of
a new section of sign above the original sign. The available
photos on the anniversary date show only the backside of
the sign and the color of the backside is very light, close to
white. In photos from the period immediately after the assassination,
the backside is much darker. The color change
strongly indicates that the original sign was entirely replaced.
A high-resolution scan of negative #1 appears to show the
newly added section of sign, indicating that the Thornton
sign was modified on or around the same time as the Stemmons
sign removal.
So this presented new questions: What was added to
the top of the Thornton Freeway sign? If the entire sign was
replaced, what did it say? Without photographic evidence of
the front of the Thornton sign, it is impossible to make any
definitive statements. But it seems likely that the modification
of the Thornton sign allowed it to perform the role of
the removed Stemmons Freeway sign, perhaps with the text
?Stemmons Freeway? on the newly added section.
The next questions remaining to be answered are the removal
date of the Thornton Freeway sign and the installation
date of the replacement overhead sign near Houston Street
(see photos pages 164 and 176). Photographic evidence
became even more scarce after the first anniversary. A Squire
Haskins photo with a very distant aerial view of Dealey
Plaza in an envelope labeled A7350 dated April 27, 1965,
shows the Thornton sign in position and the overhead sign
not yet installed. There are no suitable shadows to allow
sun angle analysis.
Negative A7578, taken on November 23, 1965, and
inscribed with its number, clearly shows the overhead sign
in position. In addition, the angles of shadows in the photo
compute to within a few days of November 23. With this
evidence, it can be stated with reasonable confidence that
the Thornton sign was removed and the overhead sign was
installed in the period between April 27 and November
23, 1965





The guy who made that site goes into much deeper details.

http://dallasfreeways.com/dfwfreeways/pdf/Dallas-Fort-Worth-Freeways-book-05-20140803.pdf

Online Joe Elliott

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Re: Stemmons Freeway sign
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2018, 10:24:20 PM »

Bullet holes in the Stemmons Freeway sign?

Who were they shooting at? The Umbrella man?

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: Stemmons Freeway sign
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2018, 11:31:38 PM »
 

Zapruder film shows back of sign lighter due to sun glare reflection. No such reflection on overcast day.

 

Rickerby and Grant photos, from a different angle than Zapruder and taken within minutes of the Z-film, show back of sign dark. This is because their camera angle didn't show the sun glare reflection.

Article about the sign as it appears in the Pete Barnes pedestal photo:

The Stemmons Freeway Sign and the Lamppost

Offline John Anderson

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Re: Stemmons Freeway sign
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2018, 12:13:31 AM »
Umbrella man's weapon jammed and when he was pumping it up and down trying to clear it he inadvertently fired a poison dart through the sign. From that moment on Oswald was the logical choice as a patsy.

 

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