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Author Topic: Oswald in the TSBD just after the shooting  (Read 69508 times)

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Oswald in the TSBD just after the shooting
« Reply #104 on: January 21, 2019, 04:09:56 AM »
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I'm sure you're referring to Brennan's description of Oswald standing to shoot. From his vantage point Oswald would appear to be standing just as BRW, Junior and Norman would appear to be standing behind the windows. I believe, and I'm not sure about this, that Brennan described BRW and Norman or Junior as standing also.

I'm sure you're referring to Brennan's description of Oswald standing to shoot.

I'm sure you're referring to Brennan's description of a thirty year old, 175 pound, man who was dressed in dingy white or khaki colored shirt and trousers  Oswald who standing to shoot.

Yes the corrected sentence is what I am referring too.....Brennan described the man as STANDING and he could see the entire upper body of the man from his BELT UP ....  Even a dolt can umderstand that a kneeling man could not have been seen from the BELT UP by a person on Elm street....

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Re: Oswald in the TSBD just after the shooting
« Reply #104 on: January 21, 2019, 04:09:56 AM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Oswald in the TSBD just after the shooting
« Reply #105 on: January 21, 2019, 04:13:23 AM »
Which noisy elevator would that be. The one almost at the NW corner that Norman and Jarman used to get to the fifth floor? How do you know these elevators where so noisy that BRW would have noticed the sound from all the way from the southern side of the TSBD? And didn't Norman say that it was more noisy on 11/22 than when the test for the falling cartridges were done months later?

Oh fer cryin out loud...Many of the people who worked in the TSBD said that the elevators were very noisy....Why the hell don't you learn the basics...

Offline Oscar Navarro

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Re: Oswald in the TSBD just after the shooting
« Reply #106 on: January 21, 2019, 04:27:31 AM »
I'm sure you're referring to Brennan's description of Oswald standing to shoot.

I'm sure you're referring to Brennan's description of a thirty year old, 175 pound, man who was dressed in dingy white or khaki colored shirt and trousers  Oswald who standing to shoot.

Yes the corrected sentence is what I am referring too.....Brennan described the man as STANDING and he could see the entire upper body of the man from his BELT UP ....  Even a dolt can umderstand that a kneeling man could not have been seen from the BELT UP by a person on Elm street....

Brennan claimed he could have identified Oswald but was afraid it was a communist conspiracy and that he and his family might be in danger. In his WC testimony he was sure Oswald was the man he saw shoot.

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Re: Oswald in the TSBD just after the shooting
« Reply #106 on: January 21, 2019, 04:27:31 AM »


Offline Oscar Navarro

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Re: Oswald in the TSBD just after the shooting
« Reply #107 on: January 21, 2019, 04:32:32 AM »
Oh fer cryin out loud...Many of the people who worked in the TSBD said that the elevators were very noisy....Why the hell don't you learn the basics...

You didn't answer my question. it's one thing for an elevator to be noisy to a person riding in it and another for the sound to project far enough for someone hearing it from where BRW was eating his lunch clear across the sixth floor with dozens of boxes of books in the way to muzzle the sound.

Offline Colin Crow

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Re: Oswald in the TSBD just after the shooting
« Reply #108 on: January 21, 2019, 04:44:11 AM »
Why would he bother mentioning where he had come from?

I can imaging before the shooting by way of conversation......something like "Hi guys, I was waiting for Billy and Danny upstairs but no one showed up, thought it was them down here."

or after the shots....

"Damn, those shots came from directly above us, I was just there before I joined you."

or.....

Nothing.

what do you think?

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Re: Oswald in the TSBD just after the shooting
« Reply #108 on: January 21, 2019, 04:44:11 AM »


Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Oswald in the TSBD just after the shooting
« Reply #109 on: January 21, 2019, 04:50:13 AM »
..I would describe myself as a non-acceptor of the Warren Report's conclusion mainly because of its treatment of witnesses, selectivity with the evidence, the presence/influence of Dulles, and the whole Ruby episode (2 lone gunmen in 3 days - really?).
As to Oswald's role, I'm actually nearly fully convinced that he was totally innocent and was setup.
I also am a skeptic. 
Quote
Similarly - why did he take off so suddenly afterwards?
Only speculation...perhaps he was told to in advance or on the phone by someone.
Quote
Brennan claimed he could have identified Oswald but was afraid it was a communist conspiracy and that he and his family might be in danger. In his WC testimony he was sure Oswald was the man he saw shoot.
Probably told to say that.

Offline Colin Crow

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Re: Oswald in the TSBD just after the shooting
« Reply #110 on: January 21, 2019, 05:07:36 AM »

Timeline according to 6th Floor Museum; Motorcade turns into Main St. 12:21 p.m.

https://www.jfk.org/the-assassination/jfk-assassination-timeline/

DPD radio log has motorcade reaching intersection of Harwood and Live Oak before 12:22 p.m. that's three blocks from Main St. While on main St. the motorcade was travelling at a speed of from 10-15 MPH (see Kellerman WCT). There's also the question as to how Norman knew of the motorcade arriving at Main St. has to be explained. KLIF was not reporting the location of the motorcade once it left Love Field (see David Von Pein You Tube channel) and there's no evidence there was a two or three wheeler DPD motorbike outside the DTBD while Norman was out side waiting for the motorcade.

They do list 12.21......seems they are wrong.

12:22 pm 1 Escort drop back, go real slow speed now
approaching Main.
531-15-2 You reading?
15-2-531 10-4.
1 Hold up escort, CK, move along.

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/D%20Disk/Dallas%20Police%20Department/Dallas%20Police%20Department%20Records/Volume%2004/Item%2001.pdf

Looks like there was an announcement about Main after all.....about 12.22. Was hearing this the trigger for Jarman and Norman to stop going with Givens and turn back to the depository? They realized they had time to get a better view from the 5th floor.

Truly states he saw the three leave the front of the TSBD but two return.

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Re: Oswald in the TSBD just after the shooting
« Reply #110 on: January 21, 2019, 05:07:36 AM »


Offline Colin Crow

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Re: Oswald in the TSBD just after the shooting
« Reply #111 on: January 21, 2019, 05:47:17 AM »
Before I get to my response to this thread I read the Three Stooges thread and was impressed by your arguments and with the information provided, so kudos to you. It's too bad that it was temporarily hijacked by Tutti and Frutti but that can't be helped.

Nevertheless, I was not persuaded to adopt the conclusion you appear to have arrived at for the following reasons. BRW was very vague as to where he left the remains of the chicken lunch, the bag, and even the Dr. Pepper bottle. This ties in with Mooney's testimony as to where he found the chicken bone and the paper bag. He placed the chicken bone and the bag laying on the top of one of two boxes (see CE-513)

Mr. BALL - Does that show any place where you saw the chicken bone?
Mr. MOONEY - If I recall correctly, the chicken bone could have been laying on this box or it might have been laying on this box right here.
Mr. BALL - Make a couple of marks there to indicate where possibly the chicken bone was lying.
Mr. MOONEY - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Make two "X's". You think there was a chicken bone on the top of either one of those two?
Mr. MOONEY - There was one of them partially eaten. And there was a little small paper poke.
Mr. BALL - By poke, you mean a paper sack?
Mr. MOONEY - Right.
Mr. BALL - Where was that?
Mr. MOONEY - Saw the chicken bone was laying here. The poke was laying about a foot away from it.
Mr. BALL - On the same carton?
Mr. MOONEY - Yes, sir. In close relation to each other. But as to what was in the sack--it was kind of together, and I didn't open it. I didn't put my hands on it to open it. I only saw one piece of chicken.



These boxes marked by Mooney formed part of the wall of boxes between the SN and the area where BRW said he was during his stay on the sixth floor. BRW could just as easily have placed the chicken and the paper bag from outside the SN and not seen LHO in the SN if he was there during the time BRW was at the sixth floor. IMO, LHO could have been just about anywhere on the sixth floor and have made it to the SN from the time BRW left the sixth floor on his way down to the fifth floor to meet up with Junior and Norman without beeing seen by BRW. Where I don't believe LHO could have been was on the SW end of the sixth floor where Arnold Rowland says he saw someone with a rifle at about 12:15 p.m. because BRW had a clear line of sight from where he claimed to have been eating his lunch towards the west of the TSBD facing south. I also don't believe that Rowland saw a man who could have been BRW inside the SN because it's not recorded in any of the previous interviews before his testimony to the WC and never mentioned it to his wife. While Rowland was probably a nice young man he was prone to exxagerations and many of his other observations during his testimony were just fabrications.

As to Norman's and Jarman's statements these guys got together before their WC testimony and ironed out the differences in their statements because, IMO, they wanted to be as accurate as possible but not to come clean for past attempts to cover for BRW.

The picture is shown looking south and you can see the "rifle rest boxes" in the window. Therefore these do not represent the area that BRW indicated. He was vague but said it was around the 3rd to 4th series of windows. This was the place that Day enquired the employees about on the following Monday and represented the spot where Studebaker had informed Day they had been found. They had been moved to this spot from where Mooney indicated, the SN, likely by Gerald Hill, prior to the arrival of Fritz and co.

How were they covering for BRW? Why would they feel the need to do so?