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Author Topic: Oswald in the TSBD just after the shooting  (Read 23136 times)

Online Colin Crow

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Re: Oswald in the TSBD just after the shooting
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2019, 12:28:16 AM »
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I'll answer your two questions with very simple answers. Oswald was not eating his lunch (no witnesses saw him ) but was in the 6th floor of the TSBD from where he shot three rounds from c2766 and killed JFK and wounded JBC.

Two TSBD employees entered the TSBD at the rear door at 12:27.... They were Junior Jarman and Harold Norman. They walked across the first floor and entered the west elevator and rode it to the fifth floor.  Lee Oswald told Captain Fritz and FBI agent James Hosty that he watched Jarman and Norman as the traveled to the elevator.   

Please explain how Lee could have watched Jarman and Norman as they traveled across the first floor if he was on the sixth floor???

Mr. BALL. Who was standing with you when you were standing on the sidewalk, on the Elm Street sidewalk?
Mr. NORMAN. I remember it was Danny Arce.
Mr. BALL. And who else?
Mr. NORMAN. I remember seeing Mr. Truly and Mr. Campbell. They were standing somewhere behind us, not exactly behind us but they were back of us.
Mr. BALL. Anybody else?
Mr. NORMAN. Well, I believe Billy Lovelady, I think. He was sitting on the steps there.
Mr. BALL. He was?
Mr. NORMAN. Yes. That is about all the employees I remember seeing out there. There were more people out there.
Mr. BALL. Did you stay there?

Mr. NORMAN. Well, we stayed there I believe until we got the news that the motorcade was coming down, let's see, is that Commerce, no Main, because Commerce- we went back in the building, James Jarman and I.

A timeline of the Presidential Motorcade taken from Dallas Police Radio logs indicates the Motorcade got to Main about 12.24pm.  Jarman estimated the time they left the front of the TSBD to be 12.20-12.25.  They walked approximately 200 ft to the west elevator and about 160 ft to the SE corner of the 6th floor. This would take about a minute at 6ft per sec walking speed. The elevator took about 45 seconds to reach the 5th floor. They could have been in position on the fifth floor about 2 minutes after departing the front steps and may have been in position on the 5th floor around 12.26 or slightly earlier depending on the accuracy of the broadcast.

It was only after this that Williams vacated the snipers nest.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 12:58:21 AM by Colin Crow »

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Re: Oswald in the TSBD just after the shooting
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2019, 12:28:16 AM »

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Oswald in the TSBD just after the shooting
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2019, 01:14:22 AM »
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Mr. BALL. Who was standing with you when you were standing on the sidewalk, on the Elm Street sidewalk?
Mr. NORMAN. I remember it was Danny Arce.
Mr. BALL. And who else?
Mr. NORMAN. I remember seeing Mr. Truly and Mr. Campbell. They were standing somewhere behind us, not exactly behind us but they were back of us.
Mr. BALL. Anybody else?
Mr. NORMAN. Well, I believe Billy Lovelady, I think. He was sitting on the steps there.
Mr. BALL. He was?
Mr. NORMAN. Yes. That is about all the employees I remember seeing out there. There were more people out there.
Mr. BALL. Did you stay there?

Mr. NORMAN. Well, we stayed there I believe until we got the news that the motorcade was coming down, let's see, is that Commerce, no Main, because Commerce- we went back in the building, James Jarman and I.

A timeline of the Presidential Motorcade, with times indicated, taken from Dallas Police Radio logs indicates the Motorcade got to Main about 12.24pm.  Jarman estimated the time they left the front of the TSBD to be 12.20-12.25.  They walked approximately 200 ft to the west elevator and about 160 ft to the SE corner of the 6th floor. This would take about a minute at 6ft per sec walking speed. The elevator took about 45 seconds to reach the 5th floor. They could have been in position on the fifth floor about 2 minutes after departing the front steps and may have been in position on the 5th floor around 12.26 or slightly earlier depending on the accuracy of the broadcast.

It was only after this that Williams vacated the snipers nest.

Dallas Police Radio logs indicates the Motorcade got to Main about 12.24 pm

How long did it take for the motorcade to travel down Main street to Houston? ...

Jarman and Norman both estimated the time at about 12:25 when they decided to go to the fifth floor where they could get a better view of the parade...

Mr. NORMAN. Well, we stayed there I believe until we got the news that the motorcade was coming down  ---- Main, we (then) went back in the building, ( through the back door.)

So they stood there in front of the TSBD and heard that the parade had just arrived on Main street (12:25) then they decided to go to the fifth floor....which would ha put them on the first floor inside the TSBD about 12:26 / 12:27...

Lee Oswald saw them as they walked to the elevator and a minute or so later he went to the second floor lunchroom to buy a Coca Cola....


Offline Rob Caprio

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Re: Oswald in the TSBD just after the shooting
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2019, 10:00:38 PM »
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To the new member,

It's important not to speculate too much and too wildly.  We simply don't know if LHO left in a rush or waltzed down the street after the shooting. Further - does it really matter? You also have to take LHO at his word - he said he was patsy; he said he was "out front with Shelley;" he said he went to "change his trousers and pick up his pistol." He said the backyard photos were fake and in time he could prove it. We should not cherry pick what he said to fit a certain plan that day. The whole key to the case and LHO is that he was steered into that job and that building because the planners had advance knowledge that the car was going to go by on 11/22.

It's important, too, to not get too carried away with ridiculous, outlandish and plain stupid wild and crazy theories. This whole conspiracy did not have to be carried out by hundreds of people; it was not necessary to have a bevy of mad scientists performing all manner of faking the photos and films; it was not necessary for evil agents to take the Z film and remove 67% of the frames from it to cover up "something" in the Z film (what that "something" was has never to this day been revealed); it was not necessary for mad doctors with scalpels at the ready to squirrel the president's body away enroute to Love, throw it down into the cargo hold, then sneak it out the back on the Andrews tarmac and onto a thrumming helicopter where all manner of body alterations took place; it was not necessary to have a LHO clone from way back in 1953, a clone that was discovered in eastern Europe no less, and this clone literally living in the real LHO's shadows for 10 years until 11/22. If you start falling for ridiculous stuff like this, then you might as well start believing the moon landings were fake.

For CTers who really and truly believe in this garbage, they simply cannot help themselves. For the Lone Nutters who, to this day, believe every single word the WC put out back in 1964, I think what it really boils down to for them is this - they simply don't like Kennedy, for whatever reason.  He was rich; he was a playboy; his Dad was crooked; he was soft on Communism; he was a Democrat; he was too liberal; he supported African Americans and their civil rights; and on and on.  In their warped way of thinking, because they simply don't like Kennedy, they absolutely refuse to open their eyes just a little bit to see the many discrepancies of the case. Put another way, If the shoe was literally on the other foot, that if it was a family member who had been murdered or one of their favorite all-time heroes, you can be sure they'd be combing through the reports looking for something contrary. But for Kennedy, in their mind, pbbtt - he doesn't "deserve" a fair and partial investigation of his murder.

I suggest you read George Michael Evica's books A Certain Arrogance and We Are All Mortal. They are free online. Also read Bill Simpich's State Secret, also free online. Pat Speer also has a great website where he covers pretty much the entire case in great detail.

Good luck.

We don't know if he even walked down the street as the WC failed to offer one witness who saw LHO walk the seven blocks that they claimed he *probably* did.

Meanwhile, there are multiple witnesses for LHO getting into a car.

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Re: Oswald in the TSBD just after the shooting
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2019, 10:00:38 PM »

Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: Oswald in the TSBD just after the shooting
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2019, 10:40:10 PM »
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Two TSBD employees entered the TSBD at the rear door at 12:27.... They were Junior Jarman and Harold Norman. They walked across the first floor and entered the west elevator and rode it to the fifth floor. Lee Oswald told Captain Fritz and FBI agent James Hosty that he watched Jarman and Norman as the traveled to the elevator.   

You made that up. There is no record of Oswald ever having made that statement.

Online Bill Chapman

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Re: Oswald in the TSBD just after the shooting
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2019, 10:50:27 PM »
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We don't know if he even walked down the street as the WC failed to offer one witness who saw LHO walk the seven blocks that they claimed he *probably* did.

Meanwhile, there are multiple witnesses for LHO getting into a car.

Nah, just one

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Re: Oswald in the TSBD just after the shooting
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2019, 10:50:27 PM »

Offline Rob Caprio

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Re: Oswald in the TSBD just after the shooting
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2019, 10:57:07 PM »
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Nah, just one

You are still clueless about the evidence, huh? It makes it easier to endorse a falsehood I guess.

Online Bill Chapman

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Re: Oswald in the TSBD just after the shooting
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2019, 11:02:54 PM »
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You are still clueless about the evidence, huh? It makes it easier to endorse a falsehood I guess.

You were driving the cab?

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Re: Oswald in the TSBD just after the shooting
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2019, 11:02:54 PM »

Offline Rob Caprio

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Re: Oswald in the TSBD just after the shooting
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2019, 11:13:24 PM »
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You were driving the cab?

Learn the evidence. No one saw LHO walking 7 blocks, but multiple witnesses saw him getting into a car.

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Re: Oswald in the TSBD just after the shooting
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2019, 11:13:24 PM »

Online Bill Chapman

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Re: Oswald in the TSBD just after the shooting
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2019, 11:23:12 PM »
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Learn the evidence. No one saw LHO walking 7 blocks, but multiple witnesses saw him getting into a car.

Name the 'multiple' witnesses
And where did your 'Oswald' wind up?





Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Oswald in the TSBD just after the shooting
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2019, 11:59:12 PM »
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You made that up. There is no record of Oswald ever having made that statement.

Common sense for a rational person is all that is needed...  Lee told the interrogators that he saw those guys come in...That's all that's really necessary...  because Jarman and Norman told the interrogators that they did in fact come in through the back door and walk to the west elevator.

And even a elementary school kid can deduce that If Lee saw Jarman and Norman "come in" then he had to be on the first floor just as he said he was....
« Last Edit: January 16, 2019, 03:19:43 AM by Walt Cakebread »

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Re: Oswald in the TSBD just after the shooting
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2019, 11:59:12 PM »

 

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