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Author Topic: Who constructed CE 142 - Lee Harvey Oswald or a Detective from the DP?  (Read 66552 times)

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Who constructed CE 142 - Lee Harvey Oswald or a Detective from the DP?
« Reply #2510 on: August 10, 2018, 07:09:56 PM »
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Lee did not show up the previous weekend.

Mr. RANKIN. Now, if it was the weekend of November 16th and 17th that he remained in Dallas, would that help you as to the time of the birthday?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. This was the weekend before the 21st, and he had not come home that weekend.

Right.  Because they were having a birthday party for Lynn.

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Re: Who constructed CE 142 - Lee Harvey Oswald or a Detective from the DP?
« Reply #2510 on: August 10, 2018, 07:09:56 PM »


Online Tony Fratini

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Re: Who constructed CE 142 - Lee Harvey Oswald or a Detective from the DP?
« Reply #2511 on: August 11, 2018, 04:22:48 AM »
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Right.  Because they were having a birthday party for Lynn.

Just a comment on Ruth - what a phenomenal recall of detail on what Marina and Lee did. She had encyclopedic recall of events - names, dates, conversations.  Holmes like  ;D

However her attempt to blame Lee for leaving the light on in the garage was a pure farce.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2018, 04:27:38 AM by Tony Fratini »

Online Michael Capasse

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Re: Who constructed CE 142 - Lee Harvey Oswald or a Detective from the DP?
« Reply #2512 on: August 11, 2018, 04:43:07 PM »
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Just a comment on Ruth - what a phenomenal recall of detail on what Marina and Lee did. She had encyclopedic recall of events - names, dates, conversations.  Holmes like  ;D

However her attempt to blame Lee for leaving the light on in the garage was a pure farce.

and you know what else....?
no scraps from making this bag in the garage...
...he took exactly the right amount...but still not enough to fit the gun whole...taking the risk to reassemble.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2018, 04:45:47 PM by Michael Capasse »

Online Tom Sorensen

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Re: Who constructed CE 142 - Lee Harvey Oswald or a Detective from the DP?
« Reply #2513 on: August 11, 2018, 04:48:06 PM »
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Just a comment on Ruth - what a phenomenal recall of detail on what Marina and Lee did. She had encyclopedic recall of events - names, dates, conversations.  Holmes like  ;D

However her attempt to blame Lee for leaving the light on in the garage was a pure farce.

Maybe she took notes...

Online Michael Capasse

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Re: Who constructed CE 142 - Lee Harvey Oswald or a Detective from the DP?
« Reply #2514 on: August 11, 2018, 05:06:30 PM »
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Maybe she took notes...

...actually she did
Rob Caprio knows this story --I lost my notes on it
She marked a calendar with the date he bought the rifle [?? if she knew he had it yet]

--but had to correct it later or had written it later?
  --ya sure ::)   Rob...?

« Last Edit: August 11, 2018, 05:24:04 PM by Michael Capasse »

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Re: Who constructed CE 142 - Lee Harvey Oswald or a Detective from the DP?
« Reply #2514 on: August 11, 2018, 05:06:30 PM »


Online Tom Sorensen

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Re: Who constructed CE 142 - Lee Harvey Oswald or a Detective from the DP?
« Reply #2515 on: August 11, 2018, 05:18:13 PM »
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and you know what else....?
no scraps from making this bag in the garage...
...he took exactly the right amount...but still not enough to fit the gun whole...taking the risk to reassemble.

With reference to Gary Mack's article:

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If Mack is correct (end of article), he shortened the width of paper by 6 inches which means he would have had scrap paper to patch the bag lengthwise.

If this was a rush job at the bench in the shipping room it makes no sense he would waste time cutting when he could just have folded the 6 inches over and taped it down. And why 6 inches?

This bag deal makes no sense at all.

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Who constructed CE 142 - Lee Harvey Oswald or a Detective from the DP?
« Reply #2516 on: August 11, 2018, 05:26:45 PM »
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...actually she did
Rob Caprio knows this story --I lost my notes on it
She marked a calendar with the date he bought the rifle

--but had to correct it later
  --ya sure ::)   Rob...?



You're right....Ruth Paine kept track of Lee and jotted down notes so she would remember when reporting to the FBI.

However, she wouldn't have needed that note that LHO had received a rifle.....  The FBI knew about the rifle because they were watching his mailbox ( using Postal Inspector Holmes).

Rob, won't know this because he refuses to believe that a rifle was delivered to Lee's PO Box   

Online Tony Fratini

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Re: Who constructed CE 142 - Lee Harvey Oswald or a Detective from the DP?
« Reply #2517 on: August 12, 2018, 01:19:23 AM »
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With reference to Gary Mack's article:

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If Mack is correct (end of article), he shortened the width of paper by 6 inches which means he would have had scrap paper to patch the bag lengthwise.

If this was a rush job at the bench in the shipping room it makes no sense he would waste time cutting when he could just have folded the 6 inches over and taped it down. And why 6 inches?

This bag deal makes no sense at all.

The confusion came about by the FBI slicing CE 142 down one side to open up the bag. By doing so, they didn't show the internal piece of paper that was used to make the paper bag. The FBI CRIMES LAB photo clearly showed that the bag had an internal layer - front, back and middle. It was the middle layer that was not shown in the FBI image of the bag opened up.

That was what confused Gary. The sheet of paper from the roll was 24 inches wide. Using photos with a tape measure and with minimal distortion caused by camera angle and perspective the bag was ~8.5 inches wide. We have an internal control - the 3 inch wide tape.

The paper bag was wide enough to hold the intact rifle but short enough to hold the entire rifle.

However, in my hypothesis, it was going to be used as a container to carry CE 139 out of the TSBD. Since Day had already commenced processing the rifle, he decided against wrapping it since it could have smudged partials rendering them useless.

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Re: Who constructed CE 142 - Lee Harvey Oswald or a Detective from the DP?
« Reply #2517 on: August 12, 2018, 01:19:23 AM »


Online Tom Sorensen

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Re: Who constructed CE 142 - Lee Harvey Oswald or a Detective from the DP?
« Reply #2518 on: August 12, 2018, 06:18:19 AM »
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The confusion came about by the FBI slicing CE 142 down one side to open up the bag. By doing so, they didn't show the internal piece of paper that was used to make the paper bag. The FBI CRIMES LAB photo clearly showed that the bag had an internal layer - front, back and middle. It was the middle layer that was not shown in the FBI image of the bag opened up.

That was what confused Gary. The sheet of paper from the roll was 24 inches wide. Using photos with a tape measure and with minimal distortion caused by camera angle and perspective the bag was ~8.5 inches wide. We have an internal control - the 3 inch wide tape.

The paper bag was wide enough to hold the intact rifle but short enough to hold the entire rifle.

However, in my hypothesis, it was going to be used as a container to carry CE 139 out of the TSBD. Since Day had already commenced processing the rifle, he decided against wrapping it since it could have smudged partials rendering them useless.

Thanks, Tony. Makes sense the overlay was 5-6 inches and taped down.

Day's performance when it came to marking, documenting and handling evidence that day was erratic to the extreme.

Hard to believe he was that incompetent.


Online Tony Fratini

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Re: Who constructed CE 142 - Lee Harvey Oswald or a Detective from the DP?
« Reply #2519 on: August 12, 2018, 07:11:03 AM »
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Thanks, Tony. Makes sense the overlay was 5-6 inches and taped down.

Day's performance when it came to marking, documenting and handling evidence that day was erratic to the extreme.

Hard to believe he was that incompetent.

Neither Day nor Studebaker were incompetent when it came to CE 142 but both choose the easy path and kept quiet. There was no point as Lee was dead by Sunday. Case over.

Even though several law enforcement officers reported different locations for the chicken lunch sack, it was photographed, filmed, dusted for prints and had signed and dated evidence tape applied. On the Monday the true owner of the lunch sack was found.

Everything we know about CE 142, PRIOR to it being photographed outside the TSBD, was uncorroberated and inconsistent hearsay.

The most damning was the fact that Captain Fritz - who in the presence of WFAA cameraman Alyea - went inside the SN - was literally standing next to CE 142 in an untouched SN, yet as a seasoned officer, failed to note it. Worse, two crime scene Detectives whose job was to photograph and document the crime scene failed to photograph an item which several of their fellow officers had concluded that it harboured the murder weapon and was big enough to carry it despite CE 139 being
present in a totally different location of the 6th floor.

To make this even more of a farce, neither Belin nor Ball, showed CE 142 or the unstained replica, to any one who purported to have seen it. Day does not take ownership of finding CE 142 yet became the only person shown it. The FBI made no mention of the signatures of Montgomery, Johnson and Studebaker next to palm print and none of them were even asked to confirm their signature.

However their signatures are not present on the FBI CRIME LAB photo - how can that be if there was a later report saying that CE 142 was signed in situ by all three.

It was obvious that none of them were aware of that photo.

This strongly suggested that CE 142 was post processed to establish a fake chain of custody.

So if Lee placed CE 139 on the 6th floor it wasn't in CE 142.

There was no evidence he had constructed it, transported it to Ruth's house, went into the garage and that CE 139 was placed inside it.

Since the DP, FBI and WC could not come up with how CE 139 ended up on the 6th floor, CE 142 had become the paper bag.

Now, if there was no CE 142, the DP, FBI and WC would have simply stated that Lee had discarded it and it could not be found.

That's why l would like to know how did Fritz know about the size and shape of a paper bag he never saw in situ?

What were Day and Studebaker doing in the shipping room with an assembled CE 139?

For me, to construct a paper container for CE 139. It should have been placed in a clean paper container and not risked to be contaminated by the elements or the public outside.





« Last Edit: August 12, 2018, 07:16:17 AM by Tony Fratini »

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Re: Who constructed CE 142 - Lee Harvey Oswald or a Detective from the DP?
« Reply #2519 on: August 12, 2018, 07:11:03 AM »