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Author Topic: Who constructed CE 142 - Lee Harvey Oswald or a Detective from the DP?  (Read 27113 times)

Online Tony Fratini

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Re: Who constructed CE 142 - Lee Harvey Oswald or a Detective from the DP?
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2018, 11:22:36 AM »
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Right, so if what the report states is true Day refers to a different bag that the one Frazier was shown although the report says it was the one that traveled back and forth between the DPD and the FBI. Interesting date of interview, the same day the WC was formed... 

IMO the most damming evidence is Studebaker's crime scene photo 039 where he must have been literary standing on the bag taking the shot, that combined with his sketch missing the bag entirely although he supposedly dusted it for prints.

Good to see your bag thread coming back. I'll post something later on the CE numbers.

Cheers  :)

I am continually updating my OP so that all pertinent documents are in the one spot.

We have the benefit of hindsight to see the deception that went on with CE 142.

I like to call it the "paper shuffle"  ;D

I thought CE 399 was bad enough but CE 142 takes the cake.

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Re: Who constructed CE 142 - Lee Harvey Oswald or a Detective from the DP?
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2018, 11:22:36 AM »


Offline Colin Crow

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Re: Who constructed CE 142 - Lee Harvey Oswald or a Detective from the DP?
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2018, 11:59:08 AM »
A couple more names for your list Tony.

Bonnie Ray Williams and...
..


Carl Day

Offline Colin Crow

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Re: Who constructed CE 142 - Lee Harvey Oswald or a Detective from the DP?
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2018, 12:04:51 PM »
Seeing as our LN friends are reluctant to engage......here is a clue regarding when the bag was found.

Mr. BELIN. You were standing there (in the SN) when he (Montgomery) picked it up?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes, because the Crime Lab (Studebaker) was already finished where I was (where the lunch sack, chicken and pop bottle were), and I had already walked off to where he (Montgomery) was.


« Last Edit: January 29, 2018, 12:06:48 PM by Colin Crow »

Online Tony Fratini

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Re: Who constructed CE 142 - Lee Harvey Oswald or a Detective from the DP?
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2018, 12:36:47 PM »
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A couple more names for your list Tony.

Bonnie Ray Williams and...
..


Carl Day

Damn your good Colin! I was hoping our well read LNers would have picked that one up.

The irony of course was that only Day was shown CE 142 during his WC testimony and he very likely NEVER saw it in situ on the 6th floor. The last place he saw it was in the shipping room in Studebaker's possession.

DVP is still scratching his head on how CE 142 got to the SN with BRW munching on his lunch within the SN.


Offline Colin Crow

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Re: Who constructed CE 142 - Lee Harvey Oswald or a Detective from the DP?
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2018, 12:45:46 PM »
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Damn your good Colin! I was hoping our well read LNers would have picked that one up.

The irony of course was that only Day was shown CE 142 during his WC testimony and he very likely NEVER saw it in situ on the 6th floor. The last place he saw it was in the shipping room in Studebaker's possession.

DVP is still scratching his head on how CE 142 got to the SN with BRW munching on his lunch within the SN.

But Tony,
If Day never saw CE142 in the SN how could he have related the 3” tape on it to that used in the shipping room? Apparently he observed that on his way up to the 6th floor.

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Re: Who constructed CE 142 - Lee Harvey Oswald or a Detective from the DP?
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2018, 12:45:46 PM »


Online Tony Fratini

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Re: Who constructed CE 142 - Lee Harvey Oswald or a Detective from the DP?
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2018, 12:47:49 PM »
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Seeing as our LN friends are reluctant to engage......here is a clue regarding when the bag was found.

Mr. BELIN. You were standing there (in the SN) when he (Montgomery) picked it up?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes, because the Crime Lab (Studebaker) was already finished where I was (where the lunch sack, chicken and pop bottle were), and I had already walked off to where he (Montgomery) was.

Note - no mention of Lt Day (because he hadn't returned from City Hall yet).

Note - Studebaker, Johnson and Montgomery (after returning from the first floor wrapping room with CE 142) remained together on the 6th floor.

Who discovered CE 142?

Who moved CE 142?

When were the two SN photographs taken by Studebaker?

How can any one (Johnson or Montgomery) "discover it" on the floor of the SE corner if it was in Studebaker's possession as he (supposedly) took it to the shipping room with Day prior to 2 pm?

This might explain Montgomery's observation of seeing CE 142 "stuffed between two boxes"?

Johnson, Montgomery and Studebaker can not get any of their paper bag stories correct.

Online Tony Fratini

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Re: Who constructed CE 142 - Lee Harvey Oswald or a Detective from the DP?
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2018, 12:53:06 PM »
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But Tony,
If Day never saw CE142 in the SN how could he have related the 3” tape on it to that used in the shipping room? Apparently he observed that on his way up to the 6th floor.

Didn't Day take the front staircase to the second floor first?

Mr. BELIN. What did you do when you got there?
Mr. DAY. I was directed to the sixth floor by the police inspector who was at the front door when I arrived.
Mr. BELIN. Do you know who that was?
Mr. DAY. Inspector Sawyer.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do when you got to the sixth floor?
Mr. DAY. I had to go up the stairs. The elevator--we couldn't figure out how to run it. When I got to the head of the stairs, I believe it was the patrolman standing there, I am not sure, stated they had found some hulls over in the northeast corner of the building, and I proceeded to that area excuse me, southeast corner of the building.

Did Inspector Sawyer know about the NW elevators or just the front passenger one?

When and how did Lt Day know about the tape dispenser with the three inch tape in the first floor wrapping room?
« Last Edit: January 29, 2018, 12:55:46 PM by Tony Fratini »

Offline Colin Crow

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Re: Who constructed CE 142 - Lee Harvey Oswald or a Detective from the DP?
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2018, 01:02:53 PM »
Day from "No More Silence"




Oh what a tangled web we weave......

He said similar in his 1996 Oral History for the 6th Floor Museum.



So much for noticing the tape on the way up.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2018, 01:11:26 PM by Colin Crow »

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Re: Who constructed CE 142 - Lee Harvey Oswald or a Detective from the DP?
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2018, 01:02:53 PM »


Online Tony Fratini

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Re: Who constructed CE 142 - Lee Harvey Oswald or a Detective from the DP?
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2018, 01:13:42 PM »
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Day from "No More Silence"




Oh what a tangled web we weave......

He said similar in his 1996 Oral History for the 6th Floor Museum. So much for noticing the tape on the way up.

This meant that Lt Day only found out about the first floor shipping room from one person - Mr Roy Truly who had arrived to the 6th floor to tell Captain Fritz about Lee missing from the line up.

Now why would Lt Day ask Mr Truly about a shipping room that contained paper and tape?

BTW - no one mentioned seeing CE 142 at the NW corner where Lt Day and Detective Studebaker were processing the rifle nor was it filmed by Tom Alyea.

So how does CE 142 make a sudden appearance on the first floor in the shipping room?

Answer - it was constructed in the shipping room by Detective Studebaker to potentially wrap up CE 139. 

Mr Truly likely saw him do it but was never asked about CE 142, yet he saw Lt Day take CE 139 out of the TSBD.

Note the strategic interruption/post insertion by Mr Belin

Mr. BELIN. Did you ever get the kind of sample used at the School Book Depository?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, I had the bag listed as----

Mr. BELIN. Commission Exhibit 626 or 142.

Mr. DAY. On the first floor of the Texas School Book Depository, and I noticed from their wrapping bench there was paper and tape of a similar--the tape was of the same width as this. I took the bag over and tried it, and I noticed that the tape was the same width as on the bag.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2018, 01:23:08 PM by Tony Fratini »

Offline Colin Crow

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Re: Who constructed CE 142 - Lee Harvey Oswald or a Detective from the DP?
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2018, 01:19:23 PM »
More from Day's Oral History....

Carl: He was surly…kind of cocky and surly. He didn‟t seem to, well,
he was denying everything…wasn‟t cooperating at all. There was one other incident that
happened there. While I was working with the gun, I didn‟t know what was going on, on
the third floor - the executive office. Captain Fritz had Marina Oswald in his office and  he wanted her to look at the gun. He came up to my office and said he wanted her to look
at the gun to see if she could identify it, but he didn‟t want to bring her out into the
reporters out there in the hall. Well, I‟m accustomed to four, five, six reporters hanging
out in that hall all the time in any major case. And if I wrapped the thing up, likely to
mess up the powder or prints that are on there.
So I just picked it up by the straps, or the
strap and the stock, I‟d already determined that nothing could get anything off there, and
I decided I‟d carry it like that down, and go through a few reporters and show it to her.
Well when I got off at the third floor, I was shocked. There was television cameras and I
don‟t know how many people were there- it was loaded. And here I am with a piece of
evidence, standing there holding it over my head, and all these people around, I didn‟t
know whether to run or what. But Captain Fritz and his men spread them out, and I
walked on through holding the gun over my head so nobody would touch it. And showed
it to Marina Oswald in the office. She was across the hall, I mean across the room from
me. I didn‟t know what she said, whether in English or Russian. But they asked her
something and finally I took the gun on back upstairs. But they got that television picture
of me holding it over my head and everything else. Looked to me like I was trying to
show the thing off, which was, it was a poor way of handling evidence. Poor way of
handling evidence. Another one of those things seemed like you just couldn‟t seem to do
anything right; just kind of sneaked up on me, and I didn‟t know people were down there.

And from No More Silence....



« Last Edit: January 29, 2018, 01:38:09 PM by Colin Crow »

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Re: Who constructed CE 142 - Lee Harvey Oswald or a Detective from the DP?
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2018, 01:19:23 PM »