Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Author Topic: Name your shooter  (Read 4391 times)

Offline Bill Chapman

  • Hero Member
  • *****

  • This Member Has Made
    A Forum Donation!
  • Posts: 2364
  • 'Pristine', my butt
Re: Name your shooter
« Reply #50 on: January 17, 2019, 12:01:46 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
That's "proof"?

 :D

Where did I say 'proof'

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Name your shooter
« Reply #50 on: January 17, 2019, 12:01:46 AM »

Offline Anthony Clayden

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 69
Re: Name your shooter
« Reply #51 on: January 21, 2019, 10:32:24 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Dougherty eh? Was that before or after lunch?

Dougherty activities...

1) Closest person to shooting without alibi or other witness.
2) Returned to work early rather than watch parade, usually took whole break but didn't this day. (Even Oswald was smart enough to be found in a lunch room and say he was at lunch.)
3) Said he didn't watch parade due to steps being overcrowded, whereas a number of TSBD employees were watching from inside the building.
4) Testimony is totally garbled, almost as if he is answering questions he think he is going to be asked, rather then the actual questions, It is as if some has prepped him to answer and he gives the wrong answers to the questions.
5) Said he was a back of 5th floor, but see no one and no one sees him
a) Not seen by BRW whilst traversing from 6th to 5th floors.
b) Not seen by other two staff members who traversed stairs and entered 5th floor.
c) If Oswald is shooter he has to go past rear of 5th floor down to 2nd floor, Dougherty doesn't see him.
6) Testified to a conversation with Eddie Piper, which Piper has no memory of. 
7) Reports only one noise, despite being very close to the scene, delay in access the lift of around 2 minutes? Took lift, rather then going to front of the 5th and looking for himself.
8) In testimony starts with him telling Piper that the President may have been shot, and then has to be "led" to  reverse that.
9) Has early access to the building alone

Of course I cannot prove JED did it (honestly I think LHO is more likely but not provable beyond reasonable doubt, thanks to Garner and the 3 ladies on 4th with her ) however with no Alibi and  confirmed closest person to crime scene, confused testimony, acting out of character, odd actions, publicly suggesting the President had been shoot when it was not reasonable for him to have know that (corrected by Ball) then he has to be a possibility

Offline Bill Chapman

  • Hero Member
  • *****

  • This Member Has Made
    A Forum Donation!
  • Posts: 2364
  • 'Pristine', my butt
Re: Name your shooter
« Reply #52 on: January 22, 2019, 11:59:53 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Dougherty activities...

1) Closest person to shooting without alibi or other witness.
2) Returned to work early rather than watch parade, usually took whole break but didn't this day. (Even Oswald was smart enough to be found in a lunch room and say he was at lunch.)
3) Said he didn't watch parade due to steps being overcrowded, whereas a number of TSBD employees were watching from inside the building.
4) Testimony is totally garbled, almost as if he is answering questions he think he is going to be asked, rather then the actual questions, It is as if some has prepped him to answer and he gives the wrong answers to the questions.
5) Said he was a back of 5th floor, but see no one and no one sees him
a) Not seen by BRW whilst traversing from 6th to 5th floors.
b) Not seen by other two staff members who traversed stairs and entered 5th floor.
c) If Oswald is shooter he has to go past rear of 5th floor down to 2nd floor, Dougherty doesn't see him.
6) Testified to a conversation with Eddie Piper, which Piper has no memory of. 
7) Reports only one noise, despite being very close to the scene, delay in access the lift of around 2 minutes? Took lift, rather then going to front of the 5th and looking for himself.
8) In testimony starts with him telling Piper that the President may have been shot, and then has to be "led" to  reverse that.
9) Has early access to the building alone

Of course I cannot prove JED did it (honestly I think LHO is more likely but not provable beyond reasonable doubt, thanks to Garner and the 3 ladies on 4th with her ) however with no Alibi and  confirmed closest person to crime scene, confused testimony, acting out of character, odd actions, publicly suggesting the President had been shoot when it was not reasonable for him to have know that (corrected by Ball) then he has to be a possibility

Jack Dougherty: Person Of Interest
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

[EXCERPTS]

The reason Jack Dougherty is a person of interest was due to the fact that he was an employee at the Texas School Book Depository on November 22, 1963. On this date, the President of the United States, John F. Kennedy, was shot and killed, allegedly by Lee Harvey Oswald from a sixth story window of the Texas School Book Depository in Dallas, Texas. Oswald fired three shots, two of which entered the president?s body causing his death and subsequently stunning the nation. 

Who is he?

Jack Dougherty was born on August 12, 1923, in Dallas, Texas. He spent his entire life in the Dallas area, attending Sunset High School. After graduation Jack spent two years in the military. Jack?s home was in the Dallas area as well, located at 1827 S. Marsalis St, Dallas, Texas.

Jack and the Texas School Book Depository

At the time of assassination Jack was approximately 40 years old and since 1952 had spent a considerable amount of time working in the shipping department of the Texas School Book Depository. Jack?s position at the Depository was that of order filler. Beyond simply working at the Depository, Jack was one of only six employees at work when the fatal three shots were fired. Jack recalls that Bill Lovelady, William Shelby, Dany Arce, Bonnie Williams, Charles Givens, and Lee Harvey Oswald were all in the building the day of the shooting. Other employees were given the task of relaying the floors on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository while Jack was mobile retrieving stock from the fifth and sixth floors.
Jacks Dougherty's Police Testimony
Jack Dougherty's Police Testimony

Is Jack Dougherty a liar?

On November 22, 1963 Jack Dougherty signed a document for the Dallas Police Department, notarized by Patsy Collins, stating the following: Jack was an employee of the Texas School Book Depository, working on the sixth floor. He claimed to have gone back to work after lunch at 12:45 but then contradicted himself, stating he had already gone back to work and had gone to the fifth floor to get stock by the time he heard the shot which in reality happened at 12:32. He then stated he went down to the first floor and asked Eddie Piper, another employee, if he heard anything. Eddie responded that he heard three shots. Jack then claimed to have returned to work on the sixth floor, seeing everyone but Oswald. He claimed to have seen Oswald on the sixth floor shortly before noon but not after the shots were fired.
Jack Dougherty's FBI Testimony
Jack Dougherty's first FBI testimony
Jack Dougherty's Second FBI Testimony
Jack Dougherty's second FBI testimony

What did Jack Dougherty initially tell the FBI?

On the same day, November 22, 1963, Jack also was interviewed by FBI Special Agents Alfred Ellington and James Anderson. Surprisingly Jack?s statements did not match the statements made earlier in the day. Jack stated that he was an employee of the Texas School Book Depository and that he came to work at 7:00 a.m. the morning of the assassination. He recalled seeing Oswald at 8:00 a.m. that morning as he came into work at that time. He then recalled seeing Oswald at about 11:00 a.m. but did not recall seeing him after that. It was clear at this point that Jack either did not know the exact time he last saw Oswald or that he was lying under pressure. Jack then supposidly returns to work on the fifth floor at 12:45 or 1:00. Jack continued to state that he was working on the fifth floor when he heard ?a loud explosion which sounded like a rifle shot coming from the next floor above me.?  This event contradicted the notarized statement that he signed earlier that day. There was no mention of going to the first floor nor of speaking to Eddie Piper. More importantly in this testimony Jack claimed to have known the source of the shot. In his prior statement, the source was unknown.

The second interview was carried out by agent Johnson with the intention of clarifying and confirming Jacks story. The findings were the same as the initial FBI testimony, however, Jack now states it was approximately 12:45 when he returned to work.
Suspicious Memo on Jack Dougherty
Suspicious Memo on Jack Dougherty

Why was Jack considered so suspicious?

After the Warren Commission and the FBI analyzed Mr. Dougherty?s statements, they were very suspicious, so suspicious, in fact, that Melvin A. Eisenberg requested further questioning and a Warren Commission testimony.  The memo pictured was sent to Lee Rankin explaining why Jack was considered suspicious. The arguments were as follows:

 He was the only one of the six employees working on the sixth floor-laying project without alibi.
 He had a very thin story.
 It didn?t make sense that Jack should have returned to work before the rest of his team.
 It is questionable that Mr. Dougherty would need to go to the fifth floor to get stock in connection with the floor-laying project.
 Employees Jarman, Norman, and Williams did not see Mr. Dougherty anywhere on the fifth floor during the shooting.
 It did not seem credible that Mr. Dougherty would have gone to the first floor, found out there were three shots fired, and returned to work as if nothing happened.
 No report shows any evidence of Jack or anyone else being on the sixth floor.
 Since Dougherty heard shots on the fifth floor, and since the shots were fired at approximately 12:32, Dougherty must have returned to the sixth floor, allegedly to go back to work, around 12:30.
 The alleged retardation may have been confused with emotional problems, and if so only furthers suspicion.
Given these highly unusual and suspicious findings, both Rankin and Eisenberg insisted Mr. Dougherty testify to the Warren Commission. Furthermore, given these circumstances and discrepancies, Jack Dougherty was considered a key person of interest.
Jack Dougherty's Warren Commission Testimony
Jack Dougherty's Warren Commission Testimony
What did Jack Dougherty tell the Warren Commission?

Later, on April 8, 1964, Mr. Joseph A. Ball met with Jack Dougherty for an official testimony. The testimony Jack gave was full of discrepancies and hints at a lack of education or sound thought process. For example, he claimed to have left the country, stating he traveled to Seymour, Indiana, a state within the United States.When asked about his relation to Oswald, he claimed to not know him along with the rest of the employees. This was not out of the ordinary, given most employees described him as distant. Jack continued to claim he showed up to work at 7:00 a.m. every morning in agreement with his prior statements. However, immediately after this statement he contradicted himself, claiming he showed up to work a quarter to 7:00 a.m. and began work at 8:00 a.m.

 When questioned about seeing Oswald the morning of the shooting, Jack claimed to have seen him alone walking in, out of the corner of his eye. According to Mr. Dougherty, Oswald was not carrying anything in his hands that morning, which is surprising given the fact he used a three-foot rifle to take the shots. Jack then claimed to have seen Oswald a second time that same day at 11:00 a.m. on the sixth floor. This statement properly correlated to his original testimonies. However, the chain of events got confusing once more as the time of the shooting approached.

 Jack?s memory again failed him when he claimed to have heard a shot after retrieving stock, forgetting lunch all together. This first statement completely contradicted all prior statements about where he was during the assassination. Jack was then asked about lunch and remembered that he went to lunch at 12:00 that day on the first floor. He then claimed he finished lunch and returned to work at 12:30, contradicting his earlier statement in this testimony and his original testimonies on the November 22.

 Jack?s recollection of events got very interesting as 12:30 p.m. approached. Jack claimed to have gone back to work at 12:30 but then contradicted himself yet again, stating he went back to work on the sixth floor at 12:40. He then stated he had heard only one shot that sounded like a backfire before returning to work. The forgetful nature of the testimony continued as he is asked what floor he went to after lunch. Jack completely changed his story on the spot at this point. He claimed to have now heard the shots before eating his lunch in the first place. This placed a huge hole in the story as Jack now seemingly had no idea what he was doing during this time, or he is deceiving under pressure.  Jack now claimed to have been on the fifth floor when he heard the shots, conforming with his earlier testimonies. Now that Jack seemed to remember his older testimonies; he began to remember speaking with Eddie Piper on the first floor. He claimed to have asked Eddie if the President was shot. This strikes Mr. Ball as he realized Jack would have no way of knowing that the President was shot given his earlier statements about never seeing the President. Jack was quick to realize this as well and changed his testimony to reflect the fact Eddie was the one to first tell him the President was shot.
Fifth Floor Diagram to Texas School Book Depository
Fifth Floor Diagram to Texas School Book Depository
Sixth Floor of Texas School Book Depository
Sixth Floor of Texas School Book Depository
Texas School Book Depository
Jack Dougherty's Fathers Statements
 
What really happened?

The mere fact Jack Dougherty?s testimonies and statements were so inconsistent led many to believe Jack played a crucial role in the assassination of President Kennedy. Jack?s statements seemed to be generally consistent across all testimonies until his lunch break. Around the time of his lunch break he claimed to have been eating lunch, on the fifth and sixth floor, and ten feet away from the elevator. It is impossible for all of these statements to be true, yet Jack signed his name to them each time. Mr. Dougherty seemingly had no ability to remember what happened accurately, or, from the conspiracy view point, he did not wish to reveal what happened accurately. Jack had no reliable alibi and operated alone, further intensifying suspicion. J. Lee Rankin and Melvin A. Eisenberg shared skepticism and suspicion of Jack for these vary reasons. Although Mr. Truly had mentioned Jack?s confusion, referring to a state of mental retardation, it is surprising that the supervisor of the Texas School Book Depository would both hire and give a mentally retarded person so many responsibilities and even a set of keys to the building. Jack opened the doors, checked the boiler, and managed the alarm system. The fact that Jack did perform such tasks and seemed to be so timely upon arrival points to his mental capacity far out-pacing that of a mentally disabled person. Furthermore, the fact he had a key to the building enabled him to be the perfect accomplice to Oswald, as he could access the building at any time undetected.

It is even possible that Jack Dougherty was the original shooter in the first place. Jack?s suspicious answers and unlimited access to the building seemed to enable him to have carried out the assassination, specifically, his recollection of where he was during the shooting which, according to the Warren Commission, happened at 12:32. Given this information was accurate, and individual statements were accurate, Jack could have possibly been on the sixth floor during the time of the shooting. Even more interesting is the statements made by employees Jarman, Norman, and Williams. The employees claim to have run from the southwest window to the southeast window on the fifth floor at the time of the assassination without seeing Jack Dougherty anywhere on that floor. These three statements contradict every statement made by Mr. Dougherty regarding his location at the time of the assassination. Recall that Jack claimed to be on the fifth floor during the shooting, ten feet away from the elevator. Jack also served in the military for two years and seventeen days, receiving firearms training. These factors combine make a strong case for Jack Dougherty being the shooter.

On the opposite side of the argument Jack could have actually been mentally challenged and confused or in shock, leading him to think his answers were truthful. When questioned, Mr. Truly explained that Jack was mentally retarded. If this were true, many of the discrepancies in memory would have been both predicable and probable. The fact Jack continued to live with his parents also reinforces the fact he might not be as mentally fit as those who assume he was the shooter believe.

Bibliography

Fujii, Lee Ann. "Shades of Truth and Lies: Interpreting Testimonies of War and Violence." Journal of Peace Research47, no. 2 (2010): 231-41. doi:10.1177/0022343309353097.

Oswald in TSBD Doorway - Dougherty the TSBD Sniper? Accessed April 23, 2018. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login.

Pein, David Von, JOHN F. KENNEDY, and DVP. "JACK DOUGHERTY." DVP's JFK ARCHIVES. Accessed April 23, 2018. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login.

"Testimony Of Jack Edwin Dougherty." TESTIMONY OF JACK EDWIN DOUGHERTY. Accessed April 23, 2018. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login.

Yusuf, Hasan. "JFK." Roy Truly: A Truly Interesting Character. January 01, 1970. Accessed April 23, 2018. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login.
 
« Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 12:26:19 AM by Bill Chapman »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Name your shooter
« Reply #52 on: January 22, 2019, 11:59:53 PM »

Online Colin Crow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 899
  • Beware of Geeks bearing gifs.
Re: Name your shooter
« Reply #53 on: January 23, 2019, 12:30:31 AM »


for Bill.....have a laugh
« Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 12:33:56 AM by Colin Crow »

Online Jerry Freeman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1420
  • Mk 4:22
Re: Name your shooter
« Reply #54 on: January 29, 2019, 03:57:46 AM »
Your shooters still have not introduced themselves?
Who were the nameless guys that Lee Bowers saw prowling around the north side [parking lot side] of the knoll fence?
Of course the Warren Commission counsel was not interested in 'flashes of light' or 'puffs of smoke' so they cut Bowers off from such description when he testified. See the candid claim @ 4:35 -----


JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Name your shooter
« Reply #54 on: January 29, 2019, 03:57:46 AM »

Online Mike Carney

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 55
Re: Name your shooter
« Reply #55 on: August 28, 2019, 11:07:32 PM »
Robert Kennedy hounded Carlos and other mob members in the senate hearings dragging several into their hearings and make comments like I thought only little girls giggled Mr. Hoffa
Joe Kennedy asks for the help of the mob to get his son Jack elected president of the United States and he wins by a slim margin. Was the mobs help enough to swing the vote to JFK, who knows, the only thing that matters is that the mob thought so.
Bobby Kennedy has Carlos Marcello basically kidnapped and flown out of the county to ultimately be kicked out of a bus in the jungle in their florshiem  shoes to fend for themselves where they could have been killed and did suffer some injuries.

Online Jerry Freeman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1420
  • Mk 4:22
Re: Name your shooter
« Reply #56 on: August 29, 2019, 02:47:21 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Bobby Kennedy has Carlos Marcello basically kidnapped and flown out of the county to ultimately be kicked out of a bus in the jungle in their florshiem  shoes to fend for themselves where they could have been killed and did suffer some injuries.
Yeah, to Guatemala....The way I heard it----Marcello was picked up and was back in the USA before the plane that took him down there had practically made it's return.               
 
 

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Name your shooter
« Reply #56 on: August 29, 2019, 02:47:21 AM »

Online Michael Clark

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 255
Re: Name your shooter
« Reply #57 on: August 29, 2019, 04:47:18 AM »
Thread title: Name Your Shooter

Im not saying I think its him, but three years ago, when he was murdered, he popped on my radar:

Frenchy Brouilette:


JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Name your shooter
« Reply #57 on: August 29, 2019, 04:47:18 AM »

Online Thomas Graves

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1666
Re: Name your shooter
« Reply #58 on: August 29, 2019, 06:47:05 AM »
Lee Harvey Oswald, the guy some propaganda about the Rosenbergs "got to" while he was still young and impressionable, who may have been trained or programmed in the USSR, and whom, as Ion Pacepa says, Mr. K may have been unable to call off the job at the so-called last minute.  Either that, or he just got totally PO-ed about the evil, evil,evil "Deep State" in both the U.S. and the U.S.S.R., maybe got tired of being jerked around by both the CIA and the KGB, and kinda decided to take matters into his own hands

(By the way, there are no bad shots in the Marine Corps.)

--  MWT   ;)
« Last Edit: August 29, 2019, 07:26:01 AM by Thomas Graves »

Online Michael Clark

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 255
Re: Name your shooter
« Reply #59 on: August 29, 2019, 12:35:06 PM »
Warren Commission witness, Nelson Delgado says Oswald could not shoot for shite.

« Last Edit: August 29, 2019, 12:36:31 PM by Michael Clark »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Name your shooter
« Reply #59 on: August 29, 2019, 12:35:06 PM »

 

Mobile View