Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Author Topic: JD Tippit - Serious timing issues  (Read 12215 times)

Online Martin Weidmann

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2439
Re: JD Tippit - Serious timing issues
« Reply #150 on: January 03, 2019, 08:07:24 AM »
Bump, before this drops of page 1;

The momentum of a bullet strike wouldn't cause the degree of movement seen in the Zapruder film. Kennedy's head moved about 2 inches forward between frames z312 and Z313. That's from the momentum of the strike. The violent back and to the left movement was a neuromuscular reaction.

Is this comment based on your own expertise?

Tim, do you have an answer to my question?

Offline Bill Chapman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3142
Re: JD Tippit - Serious timing issues
« Reply #151 on: January 03, 2019, 08:51:59 AM »
Did anyone see a shooter falling backwards on his arse on the grassy knoll or behind the picket fence or the pergola or the trees or bushes at 12:30-ish on 11.22.63?

Pretty sure some guy named Newton said something about having equal or opposite reactions to figs or something
« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 08:54:13 AM by Bill Chapman »

Offline Tim Nickerson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1667
Re: JD Tippit - Serious timing issues
« Reply #152 on: January 03, 2019, 09:29:44 AM »
Bump, before this drops of page 1;

Tim, do you have an answer to my question?

Yes I do.

Online Martin Weidmann

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2439
Re: JD Tippit - Serious timing issues
« Reply #153 on: January 03, 2019, 11:40:08 AM »
Yes I do.

Why the mystery?

It almost looks as if you don't want to answer....

Online Martin Weidmann

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2439
Re: JD Tippit - Serious timing issues
« Reply #154 on: January 04, 2019, 01:42:04 AM »
Come on Tim... just answer the question.

Offline Tim Nickerson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1667
Re: JD Tippit - Serious timing issues
« Reply #155 on: January 04, 2019, 01:55:29 AM »
Come on Tim... just answer the question.

Martin, wound ballistics or even just ballistics are not my expertise. Though, I'm familiar enough with them and with basic physics  to be able to say what I said. However, you don't have to take my word for it. Here are a few experts on the matter:

From a Joel Grant interview of Duncan MacPherson:

G: It is common knowledge that, as captured by Abraham Zapruder, President Kennedy's head and upper torso lurch energetically immediately following the explosion of his head. Could this movement have been caused by the directly transferred momentum of a bullet? That is, can a bullet "push" somebody like that?

MacP: No, and no. The movement of a body due to bullet momentum cannot be greater than the movement of the same body if it was holding the gun that fired the bullet. This is a result of elementary physics and is not disputed by anyone who understands physics. The major frustrating feature of the Kennedy assassination phenomenon is the willingness of people to pretend to talk authoritatively on subjects they know absolutely nothing about, especially things related to firearms. This body recoil is one favorite. Another is the "puff of smoke from the grassy knoll"; the theory here seems to be that someone shot Kennedy with a flintlock (modern firearms don't make a puff of smoke on firing as black powder rounds do).

G: If the effects observed on the Zapruder film are not the result of a direct "push" by a bullet, what could account for JFK's movements?

MacP: In general, body movement in response to nervous system trauma is a result of contractions in body muscles. This is related to movements of your leg when a doctor raps you on the knee with his little mallet; your leg moves because a nerve induces a muscle contraction, not because it was driven into motion by the force of the tiny rap with the mallet. The slightly peculiar location of Kennedy's arms after the 399 bullet impact is known as Thorburn's position, after a description by Dr. William Thorburn in an 1889 paper on injuries to the area of the spinal chord damaged by bullet 399. In addition to this effect, simulations have shown that bullet strikes to the skull that result in blowing out a significant hole upon exit result in skull recoil towards the bullet entry direction. The dynamics of this are a little complicated, but are more related to the pressure inside the skull cavity created by the bullet passage than to effects directly related to the bullet movement. The dynamics of this kind of impact were demonstrated independently in testing by Dr. Luis Alvarez and by Dr. John K. Lattimer et al.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/macpher.htm

==========================================================================

From the HSCA testimony of Larry Sturdivan:

Mr. Devine: Again, as an expert in he field of ballistics, you are not troubled having seen the Zapruder picture that the head moved in an anterior direction or posterior direction, I guess, the same direction from which the bullet was allegedly fired, that does not trouble you as an expert in the field having conducted tests in ballistics?

Mr. Sturdivan: No, sir, the momentum of the bullet could not have thrown him in any direction violently. The neuromuscular reaction in which the heavy back muscles predominate over the lighter abdominal muscles would have thrown him backward no matter where the bullet came from, whether it entered the front, the side or the back of the head.

 http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo/hscastur.htm
===========================================================

From the Rockefeller testimony of Alfred G. Olivier, former Chief of the Wound Ballistics Branch of Biophysics Division, Biomedical Laboratory:

Robert B. Olsen: Do you have an opinion, then, based upon your work in this field over the years, as to whether President Kennedy's body would have moved in the fashion that it did after the fatal shot in the head, that movement being a consequence of the impact of the bullet?

Alfred G. Olivier: As a result of the momentum imparted to the body by the bullet?

Olsen: Yes.

Olivier: No, it wouldn't.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=31992#relPageId=32&tab=page

Online Martin Weidmann

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2439
Re: JD Tippit - Serious timing issues
« Reply #156 on: January 04, 2019, 10:56:03 AM »
Martin, wound ballistics or even just ballistics are not my expertise

That's all I wanted to know. Thanks.

I don't really follow how any of this makes a headshot from the front "absolutely deniable" if the violent back and to the left movement was indeed a neuromuscular reaction which, according to Sturdivan, "would have thrown him backward no matter where the bullet came from".



« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 11:34:12 AM by Martin Weidmann »

Offline Eddie Haymaker

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 241
Re: JD Tippit - Serious timing issues
« Reply #157 on: January 04, 2019, 08:40:16 PM »
Brewer wouldn't even have to know that JFK or Tippit were even shot?let alone dead. He perceived a man to be ducking out of sight in response to rushing, sirens-wailing squad cars.

yeah I geddit chappie,you're right

I'm just saying his testimony is inconsistent

He say's he heard a description on the radio of the JD suspect
(which did not happen at all)

Then he comes out with Mr Bugliosi and 1.15pm in the 80's?

Thats a thread starter

« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 08:43:19 PM by Eddie Haymaker »

Offline Tim Nickerson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1667
Re: JD Tippit - Serious timing issues
« Reply #158 on: January 05, 2019, 03:55:38 AM »
Martin, wound ballistics or even just ballistics are not my expertise

That's all I wanted to know. Thanks.

I don't really follow how any of this makes a headshot from the front "absolutely deniable" if the violent back and to the left movement was indeed a neuromuscular reaction which, according to Sturdivan, "would have thrown him backward no matter where the bullet came from".

It doesn't make a headshot from the front "absolutely deniable". It just deflates the claim that the back and to the left movement of the head proves that a shot came from the front. What makes a headshot from the front absolutely deniable are the findings made by the forensic examination of Kennedy's body at Bethesda. Of course, the direction of the headshot spray seen in the Zapruder film adds to it but the autopsy report itself is what speaks the loudest.

Offline Steve M. Galbraith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 505
Re: JD Tippit - Serious timing issues
« Reply #159 on: January 05, 2019, 04:03:33 PM »
yeah I geddit chappie,you're right

I'm just saying his testimony is inconsistent

He say's he heard a description on the radio of the JD suspect
(which did not happen at all)

Then he comes out with Mr Bugliosi and 1.15pm in the 80's?

Thats a thread starter

Where in his testimony did he say he heard on the radio a description of a suspect in the Tippit shooting?

As far as I can tell, here is his only mention in his WC testimony about hearing about the shooting of an officer:

Mr. BELIN - I want to take you back to November 22, 1963. This was the day that President Kennedy was assassinated. How did you find out about the assassination, Mr. Brewer?
Mr. BREWER - We were listening to a transistor radio there in the store, just listening to a regular radio program, and they broke in with the bulletin that the President had been shot. And from then, that is all there was. We listened to all of the events.
Mr. BELIN - Did you hear over the radio that the President had died?
Mr. BREWER - I heard a rumor. They said that----one of the Secret Service men said that the President had died, and said that was just a rumor.
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember hearing anything else over the radio concerning anything that happened that afternoon?
Mr. BREWER - Well, they kept reconstructing what had happened and what they had heard, and they talked about it in general. There wasn't too much to talk about. They didn't have all the facts, and just repeated them mostly. And they said a patrolman had been shot in Oak Cliff.
Mr. BELIN - Is Oak Cliff the area in which your shoe store was located?
Mr. BREWER - Yes, sir.

Here is his complete testimony: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/brewer_j.htm

 

Mobile View