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Author Topic: Ruth Paine - Absolutely part of a conspiracy  (Read 27701 times)

Offline Oscar Navarro

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Re: Ruth Paine - Absolutely part of a conspiracy
« Reply #144 on: January 07, 2019, 11:15:45 PM »
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Re: Ruth Paine - Absolutely part of a conspiracy
« Reply #144 on: January 07, 2019, 11:15:45 PM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Ruth Paine - Absolutely part of a conspiracy
« Reply #145 on: January 07, 2019, 11:47:02 PM »

Is this what you consider bombastic prose by Wm. Manchester? Appears to be very sensible and backed by excellent research.

No, I do not consider the excerpt from DOAP  "Bombastic".... I simply opened the book it opened at page 280  so I quoted what I saw...

So you do agree that Manchester's account of the DPD radio broadcast by Inspector Sawyer at 12:45 PM  is accurate ??... 

That's very good... because it refutes the idea that Lee Oswald was the gunman that Howard Brennan saw...

First off... Lee Oswald was 24 years old.... Second...He did NOT weigh anywhere near 165 ponds... (he weighed 131 lbs) but the most obvious part of the description is the FACT that Brennan described a hunting rifle ( possibly a 30-30 Winchester) as the man's weapon...
It is an irrefutable FACT that the FBI has claimed that the murder weapon was an old Italian military rifle, a 6.5mm Mannlicher Carcano. The carcano has the entire barrel covered  by a wooden stock....whereas the 30-30 has the entire shiny metal barrel exposed, so there's NO WAY anybody could call a carcano a 30-30 Winchester....

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Ruth Paine - Absolutely part of a conspiracy
« Reply #146 on: January 07, 2019, 11:53:26 PM »
:D :D You're a riot, Cakebread. I bet you even loose when arguing with yourself.

You're right....  I do examine a point... and sometimes I'm compelled to reject a theory after "arguing" with myself

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Re: Ruth Paine - Absolutely part of a conspiracy
« Reply #146 on: January 07, 2019, 11:53:26 PM »


Offline Oscar Navarro

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Re: Ruth Paine - Absolutely part of a conspiracy
« Reply #147 on: January 08, 2019, 02:07:35 AM »
No, I do not consider the excerpt from DOAP  "Bombastic".... I simply opened the book it opened at page 280  so I quoted what I saw...

So you do agree that Manchester's account of the DPD radio broadcast by Inspector Sawyer at 12:45 PM  is accurate ??... 

That's very good... because it refutes the idea that Lee Oswald was the gunman that Howard Brennan saw...

First off... Lee Oswald was 24 years old.... Second...He did NOT weigh anywhere near 165 ponds... (he weighed 131 lbs) but the most obvious part of the description is the FACT that Brennan described a hunting rifle ( possibly a 30-30 Winchester) as the man's weapon...
It is an irrefutable FACT that the FBI has claimed that the murder weapon was an old Italian military rifle, a 6.5mm Mannlicher Carcano. The carcano has the entire barrel covered  by a wooden stock....whereas the 30-30 has the entire shiny metal barrel exposed, so there's NO WAY anybody could call a carcano a 30-30 Winchester....


Brennan's description worked twice; with Tippit at 10th and Patton and at the Texas Theater. Pretty damn good.

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Ruth Paine - Absolutely part of a conspiracy
« Reply #148 on: January 08, 2019, 02:21:29 AM »

Brennan's description worked twice; with Tippit at 10th and Patton and at the Texas Theater. Pretty damn good.

How exactly did Brennan's description work in Tippit's case? You don't know and thus can only speculate why Tippit stopped his killer. You don't even know if Tippit had even heard the decription or (if he heard it) put two and two together.

And ultimately Tippit was killed?. is that what you mean by saying that Brennan's description worked?

As far as the TT is concerned. There is no proof whatsoever that the description for Kennedy's killer had anything to do with that. They went into the TT looking for Tippit's killer, didn't they? Or are you claiming that they were actively looking for Kennedy's killer in Oak Cliff within a little more than an hour after the murder?

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Re: Ruth Paine - Absolutely part of a conspiracy
« Reply #148 on: January 08, 2019, 02:21:29 AM »


Offline Oscar Navarro

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Re: Ruth Paine - Absolutely part of a conspiracy
« Reply #149 on: January 08, 2019, 02:10:32 PM »
No, I do not consider the excerpt from DOAP  "Bombastic".... I simply opened the book it opened at page 280  so I quoted what I saw...

So you do agree that Manchester's account of the DPD radio broadcast by Inspector Sawyer at 12:45 PM  is accurate ??... 

That's very good... because it refutes the idea that Lee Oswald was the gunman that Howard Brennan saw...

First off... Lee Oswald was 24 years old.... Second...He did NOT weigh anywhere near 165 ponds... (he weighed 131 lbs) but the most obvious part of the description is the FACT that Brennan described a hunting rifle ( possibly a 30-30 Winchester) as the man's weapon...
It is an irrefutable FACT that the FBI has claimed that the murder weapon was an old Italian military rifle, a 6.5mm Mannlicher Carcano. The carcano has the entire barrel covered  by a wooden stock....whereas the 30-30 has the entire shiny metal barrel exposed, so there's NO WAY anybody could call a carcano a 30-30 Winchester....

Manchesters account is accurate:

Attention Elm and Houston is reported to be an unknown white male, all squads. Attention all squads. The suspect in the shooting at approximately thirty, slender build, height five feet ten inches, weight one hundred sixty-five pounds, reported to be armed with what is thought to be a 30 caliber rifle. Attention all squads. The suspect from Elm and Houston is reported to be an unknown white male about thirty, slender build, five feet ten inches tall, one hundred sixty-five pounds, armed with what is thought to be a 30-30 rifle. No further description at this time, or information. 12:45.

This is the transcript of the police dispatch. But Brennan did not testify that he saw a 30-30 Winchester but a high powered rifle. Either Sawyer misinterpreted Brennan, he incorporated what another witness said about seeing a Winchester type rifle in with Brennan's description, or Brennan is lying about the description of the rifle.

As has been pointed out to you by another poster the circumstances at the time of the event are fluid and based on quick observations during a stressful event. To expect any witness to give an exact description of an individual is asking way too much. In general terms the description did fit Oswald as it would fit a host of other individuals but it also eliminates a host of other individuals. The fact that Brennan stated in his original deposition of 11/22 that he could identify the shooter is clear evidence that he got a good look at Oswald.


The later descriptions that went out after the Tippit shooting also fit Oswald in general terms and were very close to those given by Brennan.

We have a description on this suspect over here on Jefferson. Last seen about 300 block of East Jefferson. He's a white male, about thirty, five eight, (siren) black hair, slender, wearing white jacket, a white shirt and dark slacks. (Sirens)

Wanted for investigation for assault to murder on a police officer: A white male; approximately thirty; about five foot eight; slender build; has black hair; a white jacket; a white shirt and dark trousers. The suspect last seen running west on Jefferson from 400 East Jefferson. 1:24

Might can give you some additional information. I got an eye-ball witness to the get-away man. That suspect in this shooting is a white male, twenty-seven, five feet eleven, a hundred sixty-five, black wavy hair, fair complected, wearing a light grey Eisenhower-type jacket, dark trousers and a white shirt, and (. . . ?). Last seen running on the north side of the street from Patton, on Jefferson, on East Jefferson. And he was apparently armed with a 32 dark-finish automatic pistol which he had in his right hand.

All of the witness descriptions fir Oswald within reason and they led to his eventual arrest at the TT. Just think, if Julia Postal had given a description of an individual sneaking into the TT that was 6', bald, heavy set and dark complected do you think the police would have rushed into the TT?

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Ruth Paine - Absolutely part of a conspiracy
« Reply #150 on: January 08, 2019, 03:12:13 PM »
Manchesters account is accurate:

Attention Elm and Houston is reported to be an unknown white male, all squads. Attention all squads. The suspect in the shooting at approximately thirty, slender build, height five feet ten inches, weight one hundred sixty-five pounds, reported to be armed with what is thought to be a 30 caliber rifle. Attention all squads. The suspect from Elm and Houston is reported to be an unknown white male about thirty, slender build, five feet ten inches tall, one hundred sixty-five pounds, armed with what is thought to be a 30-30 rifle. No further description at this time, or information. 12:45.

This is the transcript of the police dispatch. But Brennan did not testify that he saw a 30-30 Winchester but a high powered rifle. Either Sawyer misinterpreted Brennan, he incorporated what another witness said about seeing a Winchester type rifle in with Brennan's description, or Brennan is lying about the description of the rifle.

As has been pointed out to you by another poster the circumstances at the time of the event are fluid and based on quick observations during a stressful event. To expect any witness to give an exact description of an individual is asking way too much. In general terms the description did fit Oswald as it would fit a host of other individuals but it also eliminates a host of other individuals. The fact that Brennan stated in his original deposition of 11/22 that he could identify the shooter is clear evidence that he got a good look at Oswald.


The later descriptions that went out after the Tippit shooting also fit Oswald in general terms and were very close to those given by Brennan.

We have a description on this suspect over here on Jefferson. Last seen about 300 block of East Jefferson. He's a white male, about thirty, five eight, (siren) black hair, slender, wearing white jacket, a white shirt and dark slacks. (Sirens)

Wanted for investigation for assault to murder on a police officer: A white male; approximately thirty; about five foot eight; slender build; has black hair; a white jacket; a white shirt and dark trousers. The suspect last seen running west on Jefferson from 400 East Jefferson. 1:24

Might can give you some additional information. I got an eye-ball witness to the get-away man. That suspect in this shooting is a white male, twenty-seven, five feet eleven, a hundred sixty-five, black wavy hair, fair complected, wearing a light grey Eisenhower-type jacket, dark trousers and a white shirt, and (. . . ?). Last seen running on the north side of the street from Patton, on Jefferson, on East Jefferson. And he was apparently armed with a 32 dark-finish automatic pistol which he had in his right hand.

All of the witness descriptions fir Oswald within reason and they led to his eventual arrest at the TT. Just think, if Julia Postal had given a description of an individual sneaking into the TT that was 6', bald, heavy set and dark complected do you think the police would have rushed into the TT?

Navarro, You apparently can't even understand your own post.....

  We have a description on this suspect over here on Jefferson. Last seen about 300 block of East Jefferson. He's a white male, about thirty, five eight, (siren) black hair, slender, wearing white jacket, a white shirt and dark slacks.

Wanted for investigation for assault to murder on a police officer: A white male; approximately thirty; about five foot eight; slender build; has black hair; a white jacket; a white shirt and dark trousers. The suspect last seen running west on Jefferson from 400 East Jefferson. 1:24[/i]

Might can give you some additional information. I got an eye-ball witness to the get-away man. That suspect in this shooting is a white male, twenty-seven, five feet eleven, a hundred sixty-five, black wavy hair, fair complected, wearing a light grey Eisenhower-type jacket, dark trousers and a white shirt, and (. . . ?). Last seen running on the north side of the street from Patton, on Jefferson, on East Jefferson. And he was apparently armed with a 32 dark-finish automatic pistol which he had in his right hand.

Question:.....Mr Navarro,  What was the color of the shirt of the man who shot JD Tippit?  What was the color of the shirt that Lee Oswald was wearing in the Texas Theater?


 

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Re: Ruth Paine - Absolutely part of a conspiracy
« Reply #150 on: January 08, 2019, 03:12:13 PM »


Offline Rob Caprio

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Re: Ruth Paine - Absolutely part of a conspiracy
« Reply #151 on: January 08, 2019, 03:25:55 PM »

The Walker evidence (the note Lee left behind for Marina) was hidden, by Marina, inside a book which was included in a list of belongings turned over by Ruth Paine to the police in Irving who in turn, gave the items to the Secret Service who would give the property to Marina.  It was the Secret Service who found the note inside the book, not Ruth Paine.

The DPD searched the books when they went through the Paine residence.