Author Topic: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #455  (Read 151 times)

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Offline Rob Caprio

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Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #455
« on: October 12, 2017, 10:37:46 PM »
Disclaimer: I will no longer respond to any posts that are off topic and/or meant to derail the issue of the opening post. This should not be taken as me running, but instead seen as me keeping the topic on track.

I have no issue with any WC defender, therefore, I am happy to discuss the case in a manner that uses the actual evidence with them. IF the WC was correct in their final conclusion as they claim then this should be no problem for them.

I will not participate in any personal discussions with them as these are meant to distract and discredit instead of focusing on the JFK assassination. I come here to discuss and learn about the JFK assassination and nothing more.

No more games with the  :character0029:. The LNers have to to discuss the WC's, HSCA's and ARRB's evidence or move along.

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The Warren Commission (WC) claimed that Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) assassinated President John F. Kennedy (JFK), wounded Governor John B. Connolly (JBC), killed Dallas Police Officer J.D. Tippit (JDT), attempted to assassinate retired General Edwin A. Walker (EAW), and that he went to Mexico City, Mexico.

Of course they provided absolutely no supporting evidence for any of these claims in the twenty-six volumes. This post doesn't deal with any these topics, but rather drills down to a very specific topic that sheds light on how the WC dealt with issues that didn't fit their theory.


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The WC wrote the following about Marina Oswald and LHO's departure from New Orleans in their Report.

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Marina and June departed with Mrs. Ruth Paine for Irving on the morning of September 23…On the previous day, Oswald's landlord had seen Mrs. Paine's car being packed and had asked Oswald, who's rent was about 15 days overdue, whether he was leaving. Oswald told him that Marina was leaving temporarily but that he would remain. A neighbor testified that on the evening of September 24, he saw Oswald, carrying two pieces of luggage, hurriedly leave the Magazine Street apartment and board a bus. (WCR, p. 730)


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The neighbor that the WC was referring to, but did not name was Eric Rogers. Here is his testimony regarding what he saw in regards to LHO leaving.

Mr. LIEBELER. Did you see Oswald at all after the station wagon left?

Mr. ROGERS. No; I didn't see him until that night. He slipped out of there. He was going out to catch the bus across the street. The bus stop is right across the street from us.

Mr. LIEBELER. You did see Oswald come out of the apartment in the evening?

Mr. ROGERS. Yes. We was sitting on the porch at that time.

Mr. LIEBELER. So it is clear to you that Oswald did not leave with the ladies in the station wagon?

Mr. ROGERS. No; he didn't leave with them in the station wagon. It was the following evening he left on the bus with these two handbags.

There is nothing groundbreaking here, but lets look at several other things in his testimony.

Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever see Oswald have any visitors at his apartment?

Mr. ROGERS. He had no one. Had some kind of a dark fellow asked where he lived.

Mr. LIEBELER. Did he appear to be a Cuban?

Mr. ROGERS. Yes; Spanish type of person.

Mr. LIEBELER. Was that in August, do you remember?

Mr. ROGERS. Around that time. I believe it was around that time.

Mr. LIEBELER. Now do you remember anybody else that visited Oswald at his apartment?

Mr. ROGERS. Probably at the time they had this--you know--Fair Play for Cuba, something like that. I think they were radio interviewers, I think. Looked like local people. Didn't look like--heard him saying something about wanting to play on radio. That's all.

Mr. LIEBELER. You don't remember any other ones?

Mr. ROGERS. Not that I know of unless I was at work. I wasn't there all the time.

Initially he said no one visited LHO and then he describes a number of people that did. If we look at a Secret Service (SS) report from January 14, 1964, a full six months before his testimony, we find something else.

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…Mr. Rogers stated that Oswald had several visitors at various intervals, one of whom appeared to be American; that the others appeared to be foreigners and were the Latin type. (Commission Exhibit (CE) 1154, p. 191)

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This is different from his testimony were he said a Latin type asked where he lived and some local radio people visited him. This shows that one visitor was American, and the rest were foreigners and Latin. Who could these people be? LHO was supposed to be a loner according to the WC.

Surely the WC had access to the SS report since Eric Rogers didn't appear before the WC until July 21, 1964, but if they did they let this discrepancy go without a challenge. This was not the only time that this occurred.

Here is what Eric Rogers testified to in regards to seeing Marina Oswald depart with Ruth Paine.


Mr. LIEBELER. We talked to you previously out at the apartment, and my recollection is that you told us that some time in September, I believe, that a station wagon came and picked up Mrs. Oswald.

Mr. ROGERS. That was the time he left town.

Mr. LIEBELER. Tell us about that.

Mr. ROGERS. The station wagon was visible. I called my wife. I said, "Well, he must be leaving." They were packing all the things. Probably left the next night or sometime like I told you, the following night after. Had the two things in his hand and goggles on like he was running out of there. I don't know what he was doing.

Mr. LIEBELER. Did you see what license plates the station wagon had on it?

Mr. ROGERS. No, Mr. Liebeler, I couldn't tell you on that. Kind of a gray station wagon. He was putting the packing, everything in that himself.

Again, the WC should have had access to the January SS report in which Eric Rogers said something very different.

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Mr. Rogers stated that he was at home on the occasion when Mrs. Oswald and her child left in a light brown Ford or Chevrolet station wagon with a man and a woman. He said the man was about in his forties and was short and stocky. In reply to questioning, Mr. Rogers stated that he is certain there was a man present on this occasion. (CE 1154, p. 192)

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This is very different from his testimony in several ways. Firstly, he stated in his testimony that the station wagon was “gray”, but in the SS report he states that it was “light brown” in color. Clearly these are two different colors and NOT the color of Ruth Paine’s station wagon if we take her word for it.

Mr. JENNER - Describe your automobile, will you please?

Mrs. PAINE - It is a 1955 Chevrolet station wagon, green, needing paint, which we bought secondhand. It is in my name.

How do we reconcile all these differences? Why didn't the WC attempt to work this out for us? Why didn't they bring up this discrepancy when Eric Rogers testified? Gray, green and light brown are different colors and shouldn't be confused for one another. It can be thought that if this was Ruth Paine picking up Marina Oswald then she was not using her own vehicle to do so.

Now, what about the man that Eric Rogers said he saw with the woman? He said that the man was “in his forties and was short and stocky”. Off the top of my head Jack Ruby comes to mind with this description. Could it have been Jack Ruby with the woman that was thought to be Ruth Paine? The description of the man that shot JDT was “short and stocky” according to Helen Markham. If not Jack Ruby then could this have been JDT's killer? One can certainly see why the WC did NOT want this put into the record when Eric Rogers testified. This information could only lead to places that the WC had no interest in going to.

Could this revisionist testimony have been a result of coaching by the WC staff?


Mr. LIEBELER. Mr. Rogers, I am an attorney on the staff of the President's Commission. I think I met you one day.

Mr. ROGERS. I remember you; yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER. We talked to you previously out at the apartment, and my recollection is that you told us that some time in September, I believe, that a station wagon came and picked up Mrs. Oswald.

Why were they talking to Rogers BEFORE he testified? After this help by the WC he got in line with the stories given by Marina Oswald and Ruth Paine when he appeared to testify in July 1964. Don't forget that he told the SS that he was “certain” that there was a man with the woman. One could say that this was akin to tampering with a witness by the WC and it proves that they were aware of his earlier comments too.

Once again we see that the scenario given to us by the WC is not only incorrect, but also incomplete. They deliberately left out key information from their summation of events that would have pointed us in another direction. Thus, their conclusion is false and sunk.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 10:44:31 PM
by Rob Caprio
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Offline Rob Caprio

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Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #455
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2017, 09:00:42 PM »
Was the man picking up Marina Oswald Jack Ruby or Roscoe White? Was it even Marina Oswald?

Offline Rob Caprio

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Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #455
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2017, 05:04:29 PM »
If it was Ruth Paine with the man picking up Marina Oswald then it wasn't her car. So who's car was it?

Offline Scott Brookfield

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Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #455
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2017, 01:44:16 AM »
Could it have been George De Mohrenschildt?

Offline Rob Caprio

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Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #455
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2017, 01:58:12 AM »
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Could it have been George De Mohrenschildt?

Well by that time he was officially in Haiti. It doesn't mean he couldn't have flown back into the U.S. under the radar, but that would be pretty hard to support.

To me the leading candidates are Jack Ruby, Roscoe White and Clay Shaw.

Offline Scott Brookfield

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Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #455
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2017, 02:00:29 AM »
Ok. I didn't know he was there then. Thanks

Offline Rob Caprio

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Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #455
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2017, 02:04:00 AM »
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Ok. I didn't know he was there then. Thanks

No problem. The DeMohrenschildts went to Haiti in April 1963. Some researchers have posited that this decision was made so DeMohrenschildt could extricate himself from the whole LHO affair.