Author Topic: Missile Path Through Connally  (Read 13940 times)

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Online Tony Fratini

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Re: Missile Path Through Connally
« Reply #385 on: September 13, 2017, 07:28:12 AM »
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They may read the medical testimonies but, when they reach the parts they don't like, they close their eyes, stick their fingers in their ears and go "La la la la la la la!!!" until they are past the annoying bit of truth they have stumbled upon.

'Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened.'

Winston S. Churchill

How about if I place the relevant text? There is something really serious going on here between Parkland and Bethesda.

Mr. SPECTER - What did your examination of the Parkland Hospital records disclose with respect to this wound on the front side of the President's body?

Commander HUMES - The examination of this record from Parkland Hospital revealed that Doctor Perry had observed this wound as had other physicians in attendance upon the President, and actually before a tracheotomy, was performed surgically, an endotracheal tube was placed through the President's mouth and down his larynx and into his trachea which is the first step in giving satisfactory airway to a person injured in such fashion and unconscious.
The President was unconscious and it is most difficult to pass such a tube when the person is unconscious.
The person who performed that procedure, that is instilled the endotrachea tube noted that there was a wound of the trachea below the larynx, which corresponded in essence with the wound of the skin which they had observed from the exterior.

Mr. SPECTER - How is that wound described, while you are mentioning the wound?

Commander HUMES - Yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER - I think you will find that on the first page of the summary sheet, Dr. Humes.

Commander HUMES - Yes, sir. Thank you. This report was written by doctor--or the activities of Dr. James Carrico, Doctor Carrico in inserting the endotracheal tube noted a ragged wound of trachea immediately below the larynx.
The report, as I recall it, and I have not studied it in minute detail, would indicate to me that Doctor Perry realizing from Doctor Carrico's observation that there was a wound of the trachea would quite logically use the wound which he had observed as a point to enter the trachea since the trachea was almost damaged, that would be a logical place in which to put his incision.
In speaking of that wound in the neck, Doctor Perry told me that before he enlarged it to make the tracheotomy wound it was a "few millimeters in diameter."
Of course by the time we saw it, as my associates and as you have heard, it was considerably larger and no longer at all obvious as a missile wound.
The report states, and Doctor Perry told me in telephone conversation that there was bubbling of air and blood in the vicinity of this wound when he made the tracheotomy. This caused him to believe that perhaps there had been a violation of one of the one or other of the pleural cavities by a missile. He, therefore, asked one of his associates, and the record is to me somewhat confused as to which of his associates, he asked one of his associates to put in a chest tube. This is a maneuver which is, was quite logical under the circumstances, and which would, if a tube that were placed through all layers of the wall of the chest, and the chest cavity had been violated one could remove air that had gotten in there and greatly assist respiration.
So when we examined the President in addition to the large wound which we found in conversation with Doctor Perry was the tracheotomy wound, there were two smaller wounds on the upper anterior chest.

Mr. DULLES - These are apparently exit wounds?

Commander HUMES - Sir, these were knife wounds, these were incised wounds on either side of the chest, and I will give them in somewhat greater detail.
These wounds were bilateral, they were situated on the anterior chest wall in the nipple line, and each were 2 cm. long in the transverse axis. The one on the right was situated 11 cm. above the nipple the one on the left was situated 11 cm. on the nipple, and the one on the right was 8 cm. above the nipple. Their intention was to incise through the President's chest to place tubes into his chest.
We examined those wounds very carefully, and found that they, however, did not enter the chest cavity. They only went through the skin. I presume that as they were performing that procedure it was obvious that the President had died, and they didn't pursue this.
To complete the examination of the area of the neck and the chest, I will do that together, we made the customary incision which we use in a routine postmortem examination which is a Y-shaped incision from the shoulders over the lower portion of the breastbone and over to the opposite shoulder and reflected the skin and tissues from the anterior portion of the chest.
We examined in the region of this incised surgical wound which was the tracheotomy wound and we saw that there was some bruising of the muscles of the neck in the depths of this wound as well as laceration or defect in the trachea.
At this point, of course, I am unable to say how much of the defect in the trachea was made by the knife of the surgeon, and how much of the defect was made by the missile wound. That would have to be ascertained from the surgeon who actually did the tracheotomy.
There was, however, some ecchymosis or contusion, of the muscles of the right anterior neck inferiorly, without, however, any disruption of the muscles or any significant tearing of the muscles.
The muscles in this area of the body run roughly, as you see as he depicted them here. We have removed some of them for a point I will make in a moment, but it is our opinion that the missile traversed the neck and slid between these muscles and other vital structures with a course in the neck such as the carotid artery, the jugular vein and other structures because there was no massive hemmorhage or other massive injury in this portion of the neck.
In attempting to relate findings within the President's body to this wound which we had observed low in his neck, we then opened his chest cavity, and we very carefully examined the lining of his chest cavity and both of his lungs. We found that there was, in fact. no defect in the pleural lining of the President's chest.
It was completely intact.

However, over the apex of the right pleural cavity, and the pleura now has two layers. It has a parietal or a layer which lines the chest cavity and it has a visceral layer which is intimately in association with the lung.
As depicted in figure 385, in the apex of the right pleural cavity there was a bruise or contusion or eccmymosis of the parietal pleura as well as a bruise of the upper portion, the most apical portion of the right lung.
It, therefore, was our opinion that the missile while not penetrating physically the pleural cavity, as it passed that point bruised either the missile itself, or the force of its passage through the tissues, bruised both the parietal and the visceral pleura.
The area of discoloration on the apical portion of the right upper lung measured five centimeters in greatest diameter, and was wedge shaped in configuration, with its base toward the top of the chest and its apex down towards the substance of the lung.
Once again Kodachrome photographs were made of this area in the interior of the President's chest.

Why would the Drs at Parkland place in chest tubes into JFK and connect them to water and Humes insist that they did no such thing and only made superficial bilateral skin cuts?

Something is not correct here.

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Missile Path Through Connally
« Reply #386 on: September 13, 2017, 02:00:24 PM »
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They may read the medical testimonies but, when they reach the parts they don't like, they close their eyes, stick their fingers in their ears and go "La la la la la la la!!!" until they are past the annoying bit of truth they have stumbled upon.

You characters never post the butt-end view of CE-399 when claiming a 'pristine' bullet. Is that what you mean by 'parts they don't like', Rambo?


Online Tony Fratini

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Re: Missile Path Through Connally
« Reply #387 on: September 13, 2017, 02:10:34 PM »
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You characters never post the butt-end view of CE-399 when claiming a 'pristine' bullet. Is that what you mean by 'parts they don't like', Rambo?

Here you go Bill



Your challenge is to prove that CE 399 hit and went through JFK.

Not at all - goes much deeper than that - it is a serious conflict in the medical aspects of the case between Parkland and Bethesda.

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Missile Path Through Connally
« Reply #388 on: September 13, 2017, 02:20:27 PM »
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Here you go Bill



Your challenge is to prove that CE 399 hit and went through JFK.

Not at all - goes much deeper than that - it is a serious conflict in the medical aspects of the case between Parkland and Bethesda.

You are changing the subject, as usual. Your challenge is to deal with Rambo's assertion re 'la-la-la'

And date that butt-end view you just conveniently posted with no time stamp.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 02:26:25 PM
by Bill Chapman
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Online Tony Fratini

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Re: Missile Path Through Connally
« Reply #389 on: September 13, 2017, 02:30:20 PM »
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You are changing the subject, as usual.

Your challenge is to deal with Rambo's assertion re 'la-la-la' and date that butt-end view you just conveniently posted with no time stamp.

Bill,

all of those photos re CE 399 are in NARA.

you need to discuss "la la la" with Bob.

I presented the relevant text re the medical evidence - I am sure you can sort it out.  :thumbs1xx:

You want to discuss missile paths through JC? You prove CE 399 went through JFK first and then went onto strike JC.

Should be easy, right?

Offline Bob Prudhomme

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Re: Missile Path Through Connally
« Reply #390 on: September 13, 2017, 04:05:48 PM »
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How about if I place the relevant text? There is something really serious going on here between Parkland and Bethesda.

Mr. SPECTER - What did your examination of the Parkland Hospital records disclose with respect to this wound on the front side of the President's body?

Commander HUMES - The examination of this record from Parkland Hospital revealed that Doctor Perry had observed this wound as had other physicians in attendance upon the President, and actually before a tracheotomy, was performed surgically, an endotracheal tube was placed through the President's mouth and down his larynx and into his trachea which is the first step in giving satisfactory airway to a person injured in such fashion and unconscious.
The President was unconscious and it is most difficult to pass such a tube when the person is unconscious.
The person who performed that procedure, that is instilled the endotrachea tube noted that there was a wound of the trachea below the larynx, which corresponded in essence with the wound of the skin which they had observed from the exterior.

Mr. SPECTER - How is that wound described, while you are mentioning the wound?

Commander HUMES - Yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER - I think you will find that on the first page of the summary sheet, Dr. Humes.

Commander HUMES - Yes, sir. Thank you. This report was written by doctor--or the activities of Dr. James Carrico, Doctor Carrico in inserting the endotracheal tube noted a ragged wound of trachea immediately below the larynx.
The report, as I recall it, and I have not studied it in minute detail, would indicate to me that Doctor Perry realizing from Doctor Carrico's observation that there was a wound of the trachea would quite logically use the wound which he had observed as a point to enter the trachea since the trachea was almost damaged, that would be a logical place in which to put his incision.
In speaking of that wound in the neck, Doctor Perry told me that before he enlarged it to make the tracheotomy wound it was a "few millimeters in diameter."
Of course by the time we saw it, as my associates and as you have heard, it was considerably larger and no longer at all obvious as a missile wound.
The report states, and Doctor Perry told me in telephone conversation that there was bubbling of air and blood in the vicinity of this wound when he made the tracheotomy. This caused him to believe that perhaps there had been a violation of one of the one or other of the pleural cavities by a missile. He, therefore, asked one of his associates, and the record is to me somewhat confused as to which of his associates, he asked one of his associates to put in a chest tube. This is a maneuver which is, was quite logical under the circumstances, and which would, if a tube that were placed through all layers of the wall of the chest, and the chest cavity had been violated one could remove air that had gotten in there and greatly assist respiration.
So when we examined the President in addition to the large wound which we found in conversation with Doctor Perry was the tracheotomy wound, there were two smaller wounds on the upper anterior chest.

Mr. DULLES - These are apparently exit wounds?

Commander HUMES - Sir, these were knife wounds, these were incised wounds on either side of the chest, and I will give them in somewhat greater detail.
These wounds were bilateral, they were situated on the anterior chest wall in the nipple line, and each were 2 cm. long in the transverse axis. The one on the right was situated 11 cm. above the nipple the one on the left was situated 11 cm. on the nipple, and the one on the right was 8 cm. above the nipple. Their intention was to incise through the President's chest to place tubes into his chest.
We examined those wounds very carefully, and found that they, however, did not enter the chest cavity. They only went through the skin. I presume that as they were performing that procedure it was obvious that the President had died, and they didn't pursue this.
To complete the examination of the area of the neck and the chest, I will do that together, we made the customary incision which we use in a routine postmortem examination which is a Y-shaped incision from the shoulders over the lower portion of the breastbone and over to the opposite shoulder and reflected the skin and tissues from the anterior portion of the chest.
We examined in the region of this incised surgical wound which was the tracheotomy wound and we saw that there was some bruising of the muscles of the neck in the depths of this wound as well as laceration or defect in the trachea.
At this point, of course, I am unable to say how much of the defect in the trachea was made by the knife of the surgeon, and how much of the defect was made by the missile wound. That would have to be ascertained from the surgeon who actually did the tracheotomy.
There was, however, some ecchymosis or contusion, of the muscles of the right anterior neck inferiorly, without, however, any disruption of the muscles or any significant tearing of the muscles.
The muscles in this area of the body run roughly, as you see as he depicted them here. We have removed some of them for a point I will make in a moment, but it is our opinion that the missile traversed the neck and slid between these muscles and other vital structures with a course in the neck such as the carotid artery, the jugular vein and other structures because there was no massive hemmorhage or other massive injury in this portion of the neck.
In attempting to relate findings within the President's body to this wound which we had observed low in his neck, we then opened his chest cavity, and we very carefully examined the lining of his chest cavity and both of his lungs. We found that there was, in fact. no defect in the pleural lining of the President's chest.
It was completely intact.

However, over the apex of the right pleural cavity, and the pleura now has two layers. It has a parietal or a layer which lines the chest cavity and it has a visceral layer which is intimately in association with the lung.
As depicted in figure 385, in the apex of the right pleural cavity there was a bruise or contusion or eccmymosis of the parietal pleura as well as a bruise of the upper portion, the most apical portion of the right lung.
It, therefore, was our opinion that the missile while not penetrating physically the pleural cavity, as it passed that point bruised either the missile itself, or the force of its passage through the tissues, bruised both the parietal and the visceral pleura.
The area of discoloration on the apical portion of the right upper lung measured five centimeters in greatest diameter, and was wedge shaped in configuration, with its base toward the top of the chest and its apex down towards the substance of the lung.
Once again Kodachrome photographs were made of this area in the interior of the President's chest.

Why would the Drs at Parkland place in chest tubes into JFK and connect them to water and Humes insist that they did no such thing and only made superficial bilateral skin cuts?

Something is not correct here.

I had to laugh at one of Humes' comments which I must admit I had never spotted before.

"The President was unconscious and it is most difficult to pass such a tube when the person is unconscious."

It makes me wonder how many patients Humes has intubated who were conscious at the time. It is my experience the conscious patients tend to put up a bit more of a fight, but what do I know?

Yes, there is most definitely something rotten in the state of Denmark. One glaring defect in Humes' story involves the underwater sealed drainage that several Parkland doctors stated the chest tubes were connected to, once they were inserted bi-laterally into his right and left chest cavity.

A basic underwater seal chest drain system is depicted in the drawing below:

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A modern equivalent of the three bottle system:

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As seen, air, blood and other fluids are collected in the first bottle. The purpose of the other two bottles is to allow this system to act as a one way valve to prevent mostly air from returning to the pleural cavity.

To fully understand what underwater sealed chest drainage does and why it is utilized, it is necessary to understand what a tension pneumothorax is and how it affects a patient.

When a person breathes normally, the diaphragm moves downward and increases the volume of the pleural cavities. The lungs are like inflatable bags inside these cavities and the increase in pleural volume has the effect of lowering the air pressure inside the lungs. Normal atmospheric pressure causes air to enter the lungs, via nose and mouth, in an attempt to equalize this pressure, and the person takes a breath.

However, should one of the lungs become punctured, it will no longer inflate, just as a balloon will no longer inflate once a hole is pricked into it.

With the lung no longer inflating, each breath attempted by the diaphragm now allows air to pass through this hole in the lung and into the pleural space between the collapsed lung and the pleural lining. With each breath, more air enters this space and becomes trapped there, increasing the volume and pressure of this trapped air. Positive pressure ventilation, such as was applied to JFK via a respirator, makes the problem worse as it forces air into the lungs at greater than atmospheric pressure.

The reason the air cannot escape back through the hole in the damaged lung is that the lung partially inflates as breath is drawn in but collapses entirely when breath is let out, sealing itself.

The above described condition is known as a "tension pneumothorax". Not only does the patient not have the use of the affected lung, the building air pressure now affects all of the other organs in the chest. The pressure becomes great enough to reduce breathing capacity in the opposite lung, to impair the function of the heart and to impair the return flow of blood to the heart via the inferior and superior vena cavae.

It is a medical emergency, and without rapid medical intervention, the patient can die very quickly.

The obvious and correct solution is to relieve the air pressure in the affected pleural cavity, and to set up a system that will allow for the continuous drainage of air, blood and other fluids via a chest tube(s) PLUS facilitate the normal function of breathing.

However, simply inserting a chest tube, relieving the pressure and leaving the tube open to atmospheric pressure will also kill the patient. By opening the pleural cavity to atmospheric pressure, we have now created an "open pneumothorax" or "sucking chest wound". In this situation, when the diaphragm moves downward, instead of air entering the nose and mouth to inflate the lungs, air enters through the opening in the chest wall, and the pleural cavity inflates instead of the lung.

Of course, the purpose of the underwater chest sealed drainage system is to allow for the continuous drainage of air, blood and other fluids and to prevent air from returning to the pleural cavity when the patient takes a breath. In a respiratory emergency in the field, the same thing can be temporarily effected with the Asherman Chest Seal, seen below:

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Large circular adhesive pad of chest seal is applied to chest with centre hole over opening in chest. The rubber nipple opens under internal pressure to vent air and blood but flattens and closes when patient breathes in.

As the relieving of pressure is the most critical step of the procedure and brings instant relief to the patient, the insertion of a chest tube (or large bore needle) is ALWAYS performed first. Also, before connection to drainage, a doctor will INVARIABLY allow the built up pressure of air and blood to drain into a pan that he might examine the makeup of this drained fluid.

It is only once the doctor is satisfied the chest tube is functioning properly that the tube is connected to underwater sealed chest drainage.

Several doctors stated that JFK was connected to underwater sealed chest drainage. Why would they connect him to drainage if the chest tubes had not been inserted and tested? Kind of like putting the cart before the horse, isn't it?

« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 07:37:21 PM
by Bob Prudhomme
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Offline Paul McBrearty

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Re: Missile Path Through Connally
« Reply #391 on: September 13, 2017, 04:21:38 PM »
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There is no forensic evidence to suggest that a bullet exited from JFK's throat. The FBI proved that.

Observations made by Drs at Parkland observed the front small hole as being above the tie.

We also know that the clothing, including the tie were removed by the nurses likely by scissors and or a blade.


The throat wound was below the collar line: