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Author Topic: The magic cigarette package  (Read 2284 times)

Offline Steve Thomas

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The magic cigarette package
« on: January 23, 2018, 04:11:50 PM »
Two becomes three and it gets better.

Mr. BENAVIDES - Then I seen the man turn and walk back to the sidewalk and go on the sidewalk and he walked maybe 5 foot and then kind of stalled. He didn't exactly stop. And he threw one shell and must have took five or six more steps and threw the other shell up, and then he kind of stepped up to a pretty good trot going around the corner.
Mr. BELIN - When you went back, what did you do?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Well, I started--I seen him throw the shells and I started to stop and pick them up, and I thought I'd better not so when I came back, after I had gotten back, I picked up the shells.
 Mr. BENAVIDES - No, sir. He had just got back to the sidewalk when he threw the first one and when he threw the second one, he had already cut back into the yard. He just sort of cut across.
Mr. BELIN - Now you saw him throw two shells?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - You saw where he threw the shells?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Did you later go back in that area and try and find the shells?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes. Well, right after that I went back and I knew exactly where they was at, and I went over and picked up one in my hand, not thinking and I dropped it, that maybe they want fingerprints off it, so I took out an empty pack of cigarettes I had and picked them up with a little stick and put them in this cigarette package; a chrome looking shell.

Mr. POE. He told me, give me the same, or similar description of the man, and told me he was running out across this lawn. He was unloading his pistol as he ran, and he picked the shells up.
Mr. BALL. Domingo told you who was running across the lawn?
Mr. POE. A man, white man.
Mr. BALL. What was he doing?
Mr. POE. He was unloading his pistol as he run.
Mr. BALL. And what did he say?
Mr. POE. He said he picked the two hulls up.
Mr. BALL. Did he hand you the hulls?
Mr. POE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did you put any markings on the hulls?
Mr. POE. I couldn't swear to it; no, sir.
Mr. BALL. What did you do with the hulls?
Mr. POE. I turned the hulls into the crime lab, which was at the scene.
Mr. BALL. Do you know the name of the man with the crime lab or from the crime lab?
Mr. POE. I couldn't swear to it. I believe Pete Barnes, but I wouldn't swear to it.
Mr. POE. There were two in an empty Winston cigarette package.
Mr. BALL. Did you save the Winston cigarette package?
Mr. POE. I turned it in with the two cartridges.
Mr. BALL. To the crime lab?
Mr. POE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Now, the ones you said you made a mark on are you think it is 'these two? Q-77 and Q-75?
Mr. POE. Yes, sir; those two there.
Mr. BALL. Both marked Western Special? They both are marked Western Special.
Mr. BALL How long did you stay there?
Mr. POE. At the scene?
Mr. BALL. Uh-huh.
Mr. POE. I stayed there until Leavelle and his partner from the crime lab got there.
Mr. BALL. Then you left?
Mr. POE. Yes, sir; I got out and helped try to find the suspect.

2:26 PM

Dispatcher. ?75 and 69. Return back to this location. They want the Theater shaken down good for two hulls. Believe the suspect reloaded his pistol in the Theater. We need the two hulls. 2:26 PM?
75. 10-4
105. (Poe) ?105, I have recovered two hulls at the scene and they were turned over to the Crime Lab to Pete Barnes.?
Dispatcher. Received.
Dispatcher. 75 and 69 Disregard at this time.

Notice the time. Headquarters is still looking for these shells an hour after Barnes has arrived on the Tippit scene.

Mr. BELIN. Anything else that you did out at the crime scene?
Mr. BARNES. I photographed the scene; yes. There was a couple of hulls that was turned over to me.
Mr. BELIN. Do you mean empty shell casings?
Mr. BARNES. Empty .38 caliber hulls was turned over to me at the scene by patrolman--I believe I would be safe in saying Poe, but I am not sure about that.
Mr. BELIN. While you were out there, were any additional hulls found other than these two?
Mr. BARNES. Yes. Captain Doughty picked up another hull, .38 caliber.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see Captain Doughty pick it up?
Mr. BARNES. I did not.
Mr. BELIN. Were you advised as to anyone who might have pointed it out to Captain Doughty, or did he get it himself, or what?
Mr. BARNES. I heard that someone pointed it out to him and he picked it up.
Mr. BELIN. You mean some citizen?
Mr. BARNES. Some citizen pointed it out to him, and he picked it up?
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember where he might have located it? What approximate location?
Mr. BARNES. I was a busy man and I didn't watch his operation.

Mr. BELIN. About when did you say you got out to the Tippit scene?
Mr. BARNES. Approximately 1:40.
Mr. BELIN. 1:40 in the afternoon?
Mr. BARNES. Approximately, November 22.
Mr. BELIN. When would you have started taking these pictures?
Mr. BARNES. Shortly afterwards.
Mr. BELIN. Within 5 or 10 minutes?
Mr. BARNES. Yes.

Mr. HILL. Right. And Poe showed me a Winston cigarette package that contained three spent jackets from shells that he said a citizen had pointed out to him where the suspect had reloaded his gun and dropped these in the grass, and that the citizen had picked them up and put them in the Winston package... I told Poe to maintain the chain of evidence as small as possible...

DPD Archives Box 9, Folder# 3, Item# 2
Letter from Lieutenant J.C. Day to David Belin of the Warren Commission dated April 23, 1964.

?In regard to the third hull which I stated has GD for George Doughty scratched on it, Captain Doughty does not remember handling this. Please check again to see possibly if it can be VD or VBD for Vince Drain.?

Steve Thomas

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: The magic cigarette package
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2022, 03:23:44 AM »

Yes ....You're right "Two becomes three.....three shells that were extracted and discarded in widely separate locations....Which indicates that the killer was NOT using a Smith & Wesson revolver.    Because the shells from a S&W are all extracted at the same time ( demonstrated by the FBI for LBJ's "Blue Ribbon Committee" )