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Author Topic: Was JFK Killed By A Handgun?  (Read 1653 times)

Offline Rob Caprio

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Re: Was JFK Killed By A Handgun?
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2018, 05:24:43 AM »
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But where is your "supporting evidence"?  Isn't that the endless song and dance game you play with any evidence of Oswald's guilt?  So prove to my subjective standard that JFK was shot with a pistol or you are "sunk."

My evidence is in the OP. You have ignored it and gone on several rants about me instead. Why does the actual evidence scare you so much?

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Re: Was JFK Killed By A Handgun?
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2018, 05:24:43 AM »

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Was JFK Killed By A Handgun?
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2018, 05:08:19 PM »
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Secret Service (SS) Agent Clint Hill said this about what he heard as he approached the limousine from the follow-up car.

Representative BOGGS. This was the first shot?

Mr. HILL. This is the first sound that I heard; yes, sir. I jumped from the car, realizing that something was wrong, ran to the Presidential limousine. Just about as I reached it, there was another sound, which was different than the first sound. I think I described it in my statement as though someone was shooting a revolver into a hard object--it seemed to have some type of an echo. I put my right foot, I believe it was, on the left rear step of the automobile, and I had a hold of the handgrip with my hand, when the car lurched forward. I lost my footing and I had to run about three or four more steps before I could get back up in the car.

SS Agent Hill said he heard a sound similar to shooting a REVOLVER into a hard object. It seems Hill would receive support from a professional person on this verdict. His name was Dr. Charles Wilber and he was the medical examiner (that means he was a forensic pathologist) for Larimer County, Colorado. He would write a book called The Medico-Legal Investigation of the Late President John F. Kennedy Murder in 1978. Here is an excerpt from that book that agrees with Hill?s assessment of the noise he heard.

Quote on

Interpretation of the fatal head wound by several attending surgeons suggested a high velocity HAND GUN bullet fired at close range [as the cause of death]. (Dr. Charles Wilber, The Medico-Legal Investigation of the Late President John F. Kennedy Murder, 1978, p. 296)

Quote off

It seems the notion of JFK being shot up close with a pistol is not dead after all. The evidence of Agent Hill should have given the WC pause, but as usual they just ignored it.

I described it in my statement as though someone was shooting a revolver into a hard object[/b][/color]--it seemed to have some type of an echo.

Hill's description of the sounds he heard are a bit ambiguous .....  I don't know why he would think that the sound of a revolver being fired into a hard object would be any different than a rifle being fired into a hard object...

Depending on the revolver and the rifle  involved one could sound just like the other....

IMO, Hill had heard a large caliber revolver bullet strike some hard object prior to the assassination, and was relating the sound he heard at the prior time, to the sound he heard when he was climbing aboard the Lincoln.

I've heard bullets strike plywood and they create a sharp bang when they strike....  I've also head the slap of a bullet striking flesh and that sound is more of a snap or slap than a bang.... I would guess that the sound of a bullet striking a skull would be a loud smack...Neither a bang nor a slap....

At any rate, I seriously doubt that a person could determine if the bullet had been fired from a revolver, or a rifle, simply by hearing the sound.

Now then, having said that, I do believe there is a distinct possibility that a pistol could have been one of the weapons that was fired at JFK that day....
« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 09:34:32 PM by Walt Cakebread »

Online Royell Storing

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Re: Was JFK Killed By A Handgun?
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2018, 08:12:01 PM »
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I described it in my statement as though someone was shooting a revolver into a hard object[/b][/color]--it seemed to have some type of an echo.

Hill's description of the sounds he heard are a bit ambiguous .....  I don't know why he would think that the sound of a revolver being fired into a hard object would be any different than a rifle being fired into a hard object...

Depending on the revolver and the rifle  involved one could sound just like the other....

IMO, Hill had heard a large caliber revolver bullet strike some hard object prior to the assassination and was relating the sound he heard at the prior time to the sound he heard when he was climbing aboard the Lincoln.

I've heard bullets strike plywood and they create a sharp bang when they strike....  I've also head the slap of a bullet striking flesh and that sound is more of a snap or slap than a bang.... I would guess that the sound of a bullet striking a skull would be a loud smack...Neither a bang nor a slap....

At any rate I seriously doubt that a person could determine if the bullet had been fired from a revolver, or a rifle simply by hearing the sound.

Now then having said that I do believe there is a distinct possibility that a pistol could have been one of the weapons that was fired at JFK that day....

   SS Agents such as Hill carry & use a hand gun/revolver. He would be Very familiar with the sound of a bullet being fired from a Revolver.

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Re: Was JFK Killed By A Handgun?
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2018, 08:12:01 PM »

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Was JFK Killed By A Handgun?
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2018, 09:36:10 PM »
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   SS Agents such as Hill carry & use a hand gun/revolver. He would be Very familiar with the sound of a bullet being fired from a Revolver.

Hill was referring to the sound of the BULLET striking the skull.... Not the gun being fired.

Clint Hill said ..."it seemed to have some type of an echo".

I believe Hill was describing the sound of the bullet impact followed immediately by the muzzle blast ( due to the speed of sound ) Hill would probably have heard the bullet impact first and then the sound of the gun being fired.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 09:48:12 PM by Walt Cakebread »

Offline Richard Smith

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Re: Was JFK Killed By A Handgun?
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2018, 10:04:17 PM »
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My evidence is in the OP. You have ignored it and gone on several rants about me instead. Why does the actual evidence scare you so much?

Where is your "supporting evidence?"  You are sunk.

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Re: Was JFK Killed By A Handgun?
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2018, 10:04:17 PM »

Online Steve Howsley

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Re: Was JFK Killed By A Handgun?
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2018, 10:35:44 PM »
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Hill would probably have heard the bullet impact first and then the sound of the gun being fired.

Correct. He would also have heard the echo of the rifle blast from the hard surfaces around the plaza particularly the pergola to his right and the overpass ahead. Even the sound bouncing from the buildings on his far left would have reached his ears as part of a wall of sound arriving so close together it would have been impossible to distinguish their order. I doubt Hill would have heard the impact on the skull if he'd not moved much closer to the POTUS. That sound would have been lost in the cacophony of the other sounds. It was his closeness to Kennedy that made the combined head impact and rifle blast sound different and distinguishable creating a 'new' sound different from an earlier shot(s).

I think people sometimes forget that the witnesses only got one chance to absorb what their senses detected. We can read books over and over trying to pry open hidden secrets but Hill and others had just one chance. Everything else is hindsight to them.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 10:37:46 PM by Steve Howsley »

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Was JFK Killed By A Handgun?
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2018, 12:39:50 AM »
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Correct. He would also have heard the echo of the rifle blast from the hard surfaces around the plaza particularly the pergola to his right and the overpass ahead. Even the sound bouncing from the buildings on his far left would have reached his ears as part of a wall of sound arriving so close together it would have been impossible to distinguish their order. I doubt Hill would have heard the impact on the skull if he'd not moved much closer to the POTUS. That sound would have been lost in the cacophony of the other sounds. It was his closeness to Kennedy that made the combined head impact and rifle blast sound different and distinguishable creating a 'new' sound different from an earlier shot(s).

I think people sometimes forget that the witnesses only got one chance to absorb what their senses detected. We can read books over and over trying to pry open hidden secrets but Hill and others had just one chance. Everything else is hindsight to them.

The point is:....  Even though Clint Hill mentioned a revolver there is no way that he could know that the sounds he heard were the result of a revolver shot.   He may have guessed right, but it was still just a guess, and he was comparing the sounds to some sounds that he had heard previously and he knew that those sounds were created by a revolver.   

Bottom line....A bullet impact bang is the same whether it is fired from a rifle or a revolver.

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Re: Was JFK Killed By A Handgun?
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2018, 12:39:50 AM »

Offline Rob Caprio

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Re: Was JFK Killed By A Handgun?
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2018, 05:00:19 AM »
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Where is your "supporting evidence?"  You are sunk.

I asked a QUESTION based off of evidence. You're failure to either read or comprehend the evidence presented isn't my problem.

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Re: Was JFK Killed By A Handgun?
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2018, 05:00:19 AM »

Offline Richard Smith

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Re: Was JFK Killed By A Handgun?
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2018, 01:47:06 PM »
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I asked a QUESTION based off of evidence. You're failure to either read or comprehend the evidence presented isn't my problem.

Thanks for confirming that you have no evidence.  You are sunk.   

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Was JFK Killed By A Handgun?
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2018, 07:16:19 PM »
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Hill was referring to the sound of the BULLET striking the skull.... Not the gun being fired.

Clint Hill said ..."it seemed to have some type of an echo".

I believe Hill was describing the sound of the bullet impact followed immediately by the muzzle blast ( due to the speed of sound ) Hill would probably have heard the bullet impact first and then the sound of the gun being fired.

There is also a very distinct possibility that the sounds that Clint hill heard were the sound of a bullet hitting the chrome molding above the rear view mirror.

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Re: Was JFK Killed By A Handgun?
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2018, 07:16:19 PM »

 

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