Author Topic: Who bought the ammo for the Carcano?  (Read 12227 times)

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Online Michael Capasse

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Re: Who bought the ammo for the Carcano?
« Reply #350 on: July 17, 2017, 10:44:53 AM »
You Don't Know How Lucky You Are, Boy
from Negotiations Between Oswald and the Embassy
Appendix XV (WCR)


Marina Oswald's ability to obtain a non quota immigrant visa depended on the favorable resolution of 3 questions.

First, it had to be determined that she was the wife of an American citizen, which depended on whether her husband had expatriated himself.

Second, it was necessary to determine that she was not and had not been affiliated with a Communist organization on other than an involuntary basis.

Third, it had to be determined that she was not likely to become a public charge after she was admitted to the United States. Section 243 (g) of the Immigration and Nationality Act presented a fourth issue.

it was the third that....
The Department's decision assumed that prior to obtaining her visa to enter the United States, Marina Oswald would provide some reasonable assurance that she was not likely to become a public charge after she had arrived there.

The Department later encountered some difficulty in deciding that she had met this requirement. She knew no one in the United States other than the members of her husband's family, and they lacked the means to furnish any substantial financial guarantees.

After considerable correspondence on the matter with Oswald and with the Department, the Embassy decided to accept Oswald's own affidavit to support his wife as sufficient assurance that she would not become a public charge.

The Embassy's reasons were set forth in a memorandum dated March 16, 1962:

It appears that ... [Oswald] can find no one in the United States who is able and willing to execute an affidavit of support for his wife. Furthermore, Oswald has been able to obtain no concrete offer of employment in the United States. On the other hand, he is trained in a trade which should make him readily employable and he and his family will be able to live with his mother in Texas until he has found work and become otherwise settled.

Taking into consideration the latter factors, Oswald's legal obligation to support his wife, and the unusual circumstances of the case which make it difficult for Oswald to provide the usual financial evidence, the responsible consular officer ... [is] willing to accept Oswald's unsubstantiated affidavit as sufficient to overcome the public charge provisions of the law.

____________________________

So the only guy that can sign an affidavit as sufficient evidence to overcome the public charge provisions of the law, [and in this same chapter] the State Dept calls him ...

"unstable character and prior criticism of the United States"
"....a defector like Oswald who has expressed hostility and disloyalty to our government and manifested a desire to renounce his citizenship..."

but somehow...
Because Lee Harvey Oswald signed the petition on Marina's behalf, his character was relevant to whether the sanctions of section 243 (g) could be waived for her.
"...regulations did not require automatic denial of the waiver..."

Yet when Lee is dead and she is suddenly alone; does that waiver still maintain the same weight when she is talking to the INS regarding her ability to stay in this country?
And what about denying membership in the Konsomol on her original application and had that become known to the State Department it is possible she would have been excluded from the United States on the grounds of willfully misrepresenting a material fact.

The WCR cannot state that Marina was eligible to enter the United States.
...and the INS has reasons to not allow her to stay
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 03:56:42 PM
by Michael Capasse
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Online Tom Sorensen

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Re: Who bought the ammo for the Carcano?
« Reply #351 on: July 17, 2017, 11:18:04 AM »
And maybe get fired. The need to keep him was not great. The school book shipping was winding down. And if he gets fired, he loses access to an excellent shooting position.

** High enough to be well over the spectators and the trailing vehicles.

** From a window where he is largely hidden from view.

** From a window that allows him to fire from behind.

** From a window that lines up almost perfectly with Elm Street, so the angular speed of the target is at a minimum.


But Oswald should risk all that just to have six bullets in the magazine instead of four?

I donít think so.

Joe, you certainly have taken "Lone Nut" to the next level...

Until then Oswald had not missed a single work day at the depository so Truly would likely have allowed him a little slack, you think not?

Or how about informing Truly Tuesday afternoon about the dentists appointment on Thursday ... that tooth was killing him!

Or even better, let that sucker Buell Frazier pick up the box of 6.5 ammo that the gun shop had sitting there waiting for him.

How does your risk assessment look now?

Online Michael Capasse

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Re: Who bought the ammo for the Carcano?
« Reply #352 on: July 17, 2017, 12:16:33 PM »
@Michael

Mr Brinegar stated he "pulled" the bullets from some of this ammunition and reloaded it with a hunting load (soft nose) and others he sold with a military load.

Great info.

I'm sure Oswald wouldn't have missed that opportunity!

Rather disappointing the FBI didn't ask if possibly a Wes Frazier had picked up the ammo...

As these bullets get reloaded for hunting(w/soft lead)
The WCC / FMJ becomes more scarce
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 12:21:00 PM
by Michael Capasse
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Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Who bought the ammo for the Carcano?
« Reply #353 on: July 17, 2017, 04:54:01 PM »
As these bullets get reloaded for hunting(w/soft lead)
The WCC / FMJ becomes more scarce

Mr Brinegar stated he "pulled" the bullets from some of this ammunition and reloaded it with a hunting load (soft nose) and others he sold with a military load.

This statement seems to indicate that Brinegar replaced the FMJ projectile with a soft nosed projectile for his own use.    He should have been questioned more thoroughly on this point, because there weren't many Carcanos around in 63.....and not many buyers for carcano ammo......

Offline Bob Prudhomme

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Re: Who bought the ammo for the Carcano?
« Reply #354 on: July 17, 2017, 05:22:35 PM »
Mr Brinegar stated he "pulled" the bullets from some of this ammunition and reloaded it with a hunting load (soft nose) and others he sold with a military load.

This statement seems to indicate that Brinegar replaced the FMJ projectile with a soft nosed projectile for his own use.    He should have been questioned more thoroughly on this point, because there weren't many Carcanos around in 63.....and not many buyers for carcano ammo......

In all honesty, Walt, I recall reading Brinegar's statement, and he did indeed say he was swapping these bullets for his customers, although I seem to recall it was only for one or two customers.

Online Joe Elliott

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Re: Who bought the ammo for the Carcano?
« Reply #355 on: July 17, 2017, 05:29:52 PM »

Joe, you certainly have taken "Lone Nut" to the next level...

Until then Oswald had not missed a single work day at the depository so Truly would likely have allowed him a little slack, you think not?

Or how about informing Truly Tuesday afternoon about the dentists appointment on Thursday ... that tooth was killing him!

Or even better, let that sucker Buell Frazier pick up the box of 6.5 ammo that the gun shop had sitting there waiting for him.

How does your risk assessment look now?




Oswald had only worked there for less than six weeks, so itís not amazing that he had never missed a day of work. If Oswald was an essential employee, there would be little risk of calling in sick. But he wasnít. The work was getting less and less as they got later into the school year and the order for school books was dropping off. Oswald was going to be laid off pretty soon anyway, from what Mr. Truly said to the Warren Commission, and missing a day of work could likely accelerate that.



Asking Buell Frazier to pick up a box of ammunition on Wednesday and bringing in a long package on Friday is about the dumbest idea I ever heard of on this forum, and that is saying something. Buell Fraizer really would have to be as dumb as a bag of nails for that plan to work.

Online Tom Sorensen

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Re: Who bought the ammo for the Carcano?
« Reply #356 on: July 17, 2017, 07:21:35 PM »
Oswald had only worked there for less than six weeks, so itís not amazing that he had never missed a day of work. If Oswald was an essential employee, there would be little risk of calling in sick. But he wasnít. The work was getting less and less as they got later into the school year and the order for school books was dropping off. Oswald was going to be laid off pretty soon anyway, from what Mr. Truly said to the Warren Commission, and missing a day of work could likely accelerate that.

Wasn't Oswald disillusioned, desperate and burned out at that time? I'm impressed with six weeks.

If the polite and well mannered Oswald (according to Truly) had asked for a couple hours off in the morning to see the dentist Truly would have fired him?

Asking Buell Frazier to pick up a box of ammunition on Wednesday and bringing in a long package on Friday is about the dumbest idea I ever heard of on this forum, and that is saying something. Buell Fraizer really would have to be as dumb as a bag of nails for that plan to work.

Did I say Friday?

Didn't Buell swallow the 7 Lbs curtain rod story hook and sink Friday morning?

Bag of nails already volunteered to take Oswald back and forth to Irving getting what in return?   
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 10:48:47 PM
by Tom Sorensen
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