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Author Topic: "We have developed no evidence"....  (Read 1954 times)

Offline Richard Smith

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Re: "We have developed no evidence"....
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2018, 07:15:00 PM »
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Are you really suggesting that it was suspicious or impossible for the FBI to link the rifle to Oswald within a couple of days because it was "carefully hidden" behind some boxes for about an hour before being found?

Of course not.... I should have realized that there would be readers who are of diminished reasoning ....

The problem is:... The rifle had not yet been fired by the FBI to create a bullet for ballistic comparison.  So there was no way that hoover could have determined that the carefully hidden rifle was in fact the murder weapon.

Hoover already had the serial number of the mannlicher carcano that Klein's had sent the the PO box of a Marine turn coat, commie who he had under surveillance.  Hoover knew that he could connect the rifle to Lee Oswald.

"Diminished reasoning" would encompass making silly claims like the red circles on the TSBD windows were some type of signal to LBJ.  A laughable, tin foil hat claim easily debunked by newspaper articles explaining those circles years before the assassination.  You are changing claims now.  Previously you disputed that the authorities could link the rifle to Oswald.  Now you are disputing that they could link it to the assassination.  Let's see.  A rifle is found hidden in the TSBD (or as you say "carefully hidden").  Witnesses confirm shots were fired from that building from a rifle.  Shell casings are found by a window on the same floor.  And the person linked to that rifle has fled the scene and been implicated in a murder of a police officer.  He is also a known political kook.  Now make a logical inference about the rifle.  Even Inspector Clouseau could figure out it was likely the assassination weapon at that point.

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: "We have developed no evidence"....
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2018, 01:14:21 AM »
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"Diminished reasoning" would encompass making silly claims like the red circles on the TSBD windows were some type of signal to LBJ.  A laughable, tin foil hat claim easily debunked by newspaper articles explaining those circles years before the assassination.  You are changing claims now.  Previously you disputed that the authorities could link the rifle to Oswald.  Now you are disputing that they could link it to the assassination.  Let's see.  A rifle is found hidden in the TSBD (or as you say "carefully hidden").  Witnesses confirm shots were fired from that building from a rifle.  Shell casings are found by a window on the same floor.  And the person linked to that rifle has fled the scene and been implicated in a murder of a police officer.  He is also a known political kook.  Now make a logical inference about the rifle.  Even Inspector Clouseau could figure out it was likely the assassination weapon at that point.

PS...You shouldn't compare yourself to Inspector Clouseau ....  Although I agree with you that even a dunce could be fooled by evidence presented by men with big shiny badges....

 Previously you disputed that the authorities could link the rifle to Oswald.  Now you are disputing that they could link it to the assassination.

The authorities COULD link a model 91 / 38 carcano to Lee Oswald.... The BY photo shows Lee holding a carcano...

But they sure as hell could NOT link that carcano in the BY photo to the assassination...  However maybe YOU can prove that the rifle in Lee's hands is the same rifle that was carefully hidden BENEATH pallets of books in the TSBD....  And Yes, Both Seymor Weitzman and Eugene Boone said they were able to see the rifle BENEATH the pallet when they got down on the floor and shined their flashlights  BENEATH the pallet.....
« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 01:51:10 AM by Walt Cakebread »

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Re: "We have developed no evidence"....
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2018, 01:14:21 AM »

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: "We have developed no evidence"....
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2018, 01:15:49 AM »
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You lot want the entire assassination to be decided based on first day information
Investigations to you brainiacs are just 'excuses'


You've got that backwards. It was Hoover who decided the assssination on day 1 when he concluded that LHO was the lone gunman.


You lot are as children.

I take that by making such a comment you feel you are acting as a grown up, right?

It was Hoover who decided the assssination on day 1 when he concluded that LHO was the lone gunman.

Yes that's a fact.... Within minutes of Lee's arrival at DPD headquarters Hoover was on the phone ordering SAIC Gordon Shanklin to send Agent Hosty over to the DPD because Hosty had been "working with these people"  ( The Oswald's and The Paines) And at about this same time Hoover called RFK and informed him that the man who had killed his brother, President Kennedy, had been apprehended.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 01:29:27 AM by Walt Cakebread »

Offline Alan Hardaker

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Re: "We have developed no evidence"....
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2018, 01:22:44 AM »
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if you will, at both murder scenes; the only person on earth that can lay claim to that somewhat dubious achievement.

Chappie ol chum... I assume that you are referring to the murder scenes of JFK and JD Tippit....  I the first case, ( the JFK scene) Lee Oswald worked in the TSBD .  I'm sure that even you will agree that the fact that he worked there is a solid legitimate reason to be at that site along with hundreds of other people who were at that site. 

And as to the second murder scene site ( The Tippit site) Lee Oswald was NOT positively ID'ed as the man who shot JD Tippit..

As a matter of fact the person who was the closest to Tippit at the time he was murdered was Domingo Benevides...who was a solid, rational, and observant person.   Benevides was carefully avoided by the police and was not taken to any police line up because Benevides told them that he'd seen the TV pictures of Lee Oswald, and Lee Oswald was not the man that he'd seen shoot JD Tippit.

Dominic Benavides was interviewed by Dallas Police that same day and also gave a very lengthy testimony. Oswald did in fact fit the description Mr.Benavides gave in his testimony. He was actually driving past the incident at a speed of approx 25MPH and came to halt as he heard the gunshots. The fact that Mr. Benavides didn't give a 100% ID does not rule out Oswald as there were a number of other witnesses who did ID Oswald. Helen Markham,Barbara Davis,Virginia Davis,Scoggins  and others ID'd Oswald. It was Oswald that shot Tippit.Fact..end of.

The Hoover thing was just a lawman concerned that people would see Oswald had been to Russia and conclude that it was some kind of Russian involvement. No big conspiracy smoking gun thing. Just another odd trivial JFK thing/fact blown up out of all proportion.

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Re: "We have developed no evidence"....
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2018, 01:22:44 AM »

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: "We have developed no evidence"....
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2018, 01:32:12 AM »
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Dominic Benavides was interviewed by Dallas Police that same day and also gave a very lengthy testimony. Oswald did in fact fit the description Mr.Benavides gave in his testimony. He was actually driving past the incident at a speed of approx 25MPH and came to halt as he heard the gunshots. The fact that Mr. Benavides didn't give a 100% ID does not rule out Oswald as there were a number of other witnesses who did ID Oswald. Helen Markham,Barbara Davis,Virginia Davis,Scoggins  and others ID'd Oswald. It was Oswald that shot Tippit.Fact..end of.

The Hoover thing was just a lawman concerned that people would see Oswald had been to Russia and conclude that it was some kind of Russian involvement. No big conspiracy smoking gun thing. Just another odd trivial JFK thing/fact blown up out of all proportion.

You're FOS Hardaker....There has been dozens of posts that refute the idea that Helen Markham was rational enough to ID anybody....

Offline Alan Hardaker

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Re: "We have developed no evidence"....
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2018, 01:33:42 AM »
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It was Hoover who decided the assssination on day 1 when he concluded that LHO was the lone gunman.

Oswald was formally charged with the murder of Officer J.D.Tippit approx 7.00PM 22nd November and was charged with the assassination of JFK at 1.00 AM  23rd November. So it was not as if Hoover was making some random guess. They already had Oswald in custody and had enough to go on. It was with that clear knowledge that they had the killer in custody that was the backdrop to Hoovers very understandable reasoning and conclusion.

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Re: "We have developed no evidence"....
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2018, 01:33:42 AM »

Offline Alan Hardaker

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Re: "We have developed no evidence"....
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2018, 01:38:42 AM »
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You're FOS Hardaker....There has been dozens of posts that refute the idea that Helen Markham was rational enough to ID anybody....

The irrational one in this mess was that mixed up fantasist LHO. Can't knock all of those who saw him. Just to many witnesses. Oswald shot JD Tippit.

Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: "We have developed no evidence"....
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2018, 01:44:03 AM »
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Oswald was formally charged with the murder of Officer J.D.Tippit approx 7.00PM 22nd November and was charged with the assassination of JFK at 1.00 AM  23rd November. So it was not as if Hoover was making some random guess. They already had Oswald in custody and had enough to go on. It was with that clear knowledge that they had the killer in custody that was the backdrop to Hoovers very understandable reasoning and conclusion.

Hoovers very understandable reasoning and conclusion.

So, it is your opinion that it is ok for law enforcement officers to make up their mind prior to evidence being collected and subsequently not look any further than they guy in custody?

So much for considering all options... I guess you would have liked to live in Salem...

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Re: "We have developed no evidence"....
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2018, 01:44:03 AM »

Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: "We have developed no evidence"....
« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2018, 01:54:10 AM »
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The irrational one in this mess was that mixed up fantasist LHO. Can't knock all of those who saw him. Just to many witnesses. Oswald shot JD Tippit.

Amazing? when dozens of witnesses in Dealey Plaza say something that contradicts the official story, they are all deemed to be wrong and we are told eyewitness testimony is highy unreliable.

Yet when a number of people (most of whom only saw Tippit's killer for mere seconds) pick out a guy from a highly questionable line up, they all are deemed to be correct.

I witnessed a street robbery a couple of years ago. I saw the guy walk toward me, and I saw him run after grabbing a girl's phone. Less than 30 minutes later, a police officer asked me if I could describe and/or identify the guy and, as much as I wanted to, I couldn't because it all happened too quickly. With that experience in mind, there is no way you can tell me that all those people would be able to identify Tippit's killer in a fair line up.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 01:56:29 AM by Martin Weidmann »

Offline Alan Hardaker

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Re: "We have developed no evidence"....
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2018, 02:00:34 AM »
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Hoovers very understandable reasoning and conclusion.

So, it is your opinion that it is ok for law enforcement officers to make up their mind prior to evidence being collected and subsequently not look any further than they guy in custody?

So much for considering all options... I guess you would have liked to live in Salem...

Hoover would've had enough information handed to him on Oswald. To be fair it was a little premature for Hoover to be making such statements. But it isn't that big an influence on the actual evidence, the sightings etc. You or others can't base your arguments on a few untimely utterings by Hoover. And you can't just make vague accusations against eye witnesses and expect people to ignore clear irrefutable sightings of Oswald as the killer of Officer J.D.Tippit.


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Re: "We have developed no evidence"....
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2018, 02:00:34 AM »

 

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