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Author Topic: A snapshot into the mind of Dr. Cyril Wecht  (Read 2463 times)

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: A snapshot into the mind of Dr. Cyril Wecht
« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2018, 04:30:35 AM »
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A conspiracy in the Kennedy assassination appeals to both the extreme right and left wing. Anyone who is against Democracy and thinks we would be better off with a Communist dictatorship or a Fascist dictatorship.

Many CTers try to steer people into thinking that parts of the U. S. Government murdered President Kennedy. To get control of the government. And this same group controls the government to this day. If one can believe this one is halfway to convincing them that a non-secret dictatorship is maybe not worse than a secret dictatorship, which democracies seemed to be prone to falling under the control of.

Because extreme right wingers are in more disrepute than left wingers, I think most extreme right wingers keep silent on this, no wishing to harm the Pro-Conspiracy arguments. The left wingers are doing a good enough job convincing people that there was a conspiracy that they don?t need any help, and any help would be counter-productive.
Both Gary Craig and Jerry Freeman seem to think my post was hogwash.

If so, can either of them name a dictator, a spokesman for a dictatorship, or anyone who believes a certain form dictatorship is the best form of government, who has said that they believe that Oswald alone killed President Kennedy?

Can they name even one?

The appeal of a conspiracy thinking to these people is obvious.

Offline Gary Craig

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Re: A snapshot into the mind of Dr. Cyril Wecht
« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2018, 04:54:48 AM »
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Both Gary Craig and Jerry Freeman seem to think my post was hogwash.

If so, can either of them name a dictator, a spokesman for a dictatorship, or anyone who believes a certain form dictatorship is the best form of government, who has said that they believe that Oswald alone killed President Kennedy?

Can they name even one?

The appeal of a conspiracy thinking to these people is obvious.

 ::)

"...Popular belief in a conspiracy was widespread within a week of Kennedy's murder. Between November 25 and 29, 1963, University of Chicago pollsters asked more than 1,000 Americans whom they thought was responsible for the president's death. By then, the chief suspect, Oswald -- a leftist who had lived for a time in Soviet Union -- had been shot dead while in police custody by Jack Ruby, a local hoodlum with organized crime connections.

While the White House, the FBI, and the Dallas Police Department all affirmed that Oswald had acted alone, 62 percent of respondents said they believed that more than one person was involved in the assassination. Only 24 percent thought Oswald had acted alone. Another poll taken in Dallas during the same week found 66 percent of respondents believing that there had been a plot. There were no JFK conspiracy theories in print at that time..."


"...many senior U.S. officials concluded that there had been a plot but rarely talked about it openly.
Kennedy's successor, Lyndon Johnson, publicly endorsed the Warren Commissions conclusion that Oswald acted alone. Privately, LBJ told many people, ranging from Atlantic contributor Leo Janos to CIA director Richard Helms, that he did not believe the lone-gunman explanation.

The president's brother Robert and widow Jacqueline also believed that he had been killed by political enemies, according to historians Aleksandr Fursenko and Tim Naftali. In their 1999 book on the Cuban missile crisis, One Hell of a Gamble: Khrushchev, Castro, and Kennedy, 1958-1964, they reported that William Walton -- a friend of the First Lady -- went to Moscow on a previously scheduled trip a week after JFK's murder. Walton carried a message from RFK and Jackie for their friend, Georgi Bolshakov, a Russian diplomat who had served as a back-channel link between the White House and the Kremlin during the October 1962 crisis: RFK and Jackie wanted the Soviet leadership to know that "despite Oswald's connections to the communist world, the Kennedys believed that the president was felled by domestic opponents."

In the Senate, Democrats Richard Russell of Georgia and Russell Long of Louisiana both rejected official accounts of the assassination. In the executive branch, Joseph Califano, the General Counsel of Army in 1963 and later Secretary of Health Education and Welfare, concluded that Kennedy had been killed by a conspiracy.* In the White House, H.R. Haldeman, chief of staff to President Richard Nixon,
wanted to reopen the JFK investigation in 1969. Nixon wasn't interested.

Suspicion persisted in the upper echelons of the U.S. national security agencies, as well. Col. L. Fletcher Prouty, chief of Pentagon special operations in 1963 (and later an adviser to Stone), believed that there had been a plot.

Winston Scott, chief of the CIA's station in Mexico City at the time of Kennedy's murder and an ultra-conservative Agency loyalist, rejected the Warren Commission's findings about a trip that Oswald had taken to Mexico six weeks before the assassination. Scott concluded in an unpublished memoir that Oswald had, indeed, been just a patsy.

None of these figures was a paranoid fantasist. To the contrary, they constituted a cross section of the American power elite in 1963. Neither did they talk about a JFK conspiracy for public consumption; they talked about it only reservedly, in confined circles..."


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Re: A snapshot into the mind of Dr. Cyril Wecht
« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2018, 04:54:48 AM »

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: A snapshot into the mind of Dr. Cyril Wecht
« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2018, 12:35:35 PM »
Gary, again you dodge my question. So I will ask it again:

Both Gary Craig and Jerry Freeman seem to think my post was hogwash.

If so, can either of them name a dictator, a spokesman for a dictatorship, or anyone who believes a certain form dictatorship is the best form of government, who has said that they believe that Oswald alone killed President Kennedy?

Can they name even one?

The appeal of a conspiracy thinking to these people is obvious.

Yes, one can name people who believe in Democracy who believe in the JFK Conspiracy. One can also find such people in the past who believed in a world-wide Jewish conspiracy, or a world-wide Catholic conspiracy, or a world-wide Free Mason conspiracy. Those beliefs used to be very common throughout America in the past before they fell out of fashion.

Give me a name and site it of a dictator or a spokesman for a dictatorship who believe Oswald acted alone. So simply state that no, you can?t come up with one.

I can give the name of some who did support conspiracy, like Khrushchev and Castro. And there are probably several others I don?t know. I the rest of them have figured out that they can help the American JFK conspiracy theory if they remain silent.

Offline Gary Craig

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Re: A snapshot into the mind of Dr. Cyril Wecht
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2018, 01:10:29 PM »
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Gary, again you dodge my question. So I will ask it again:

Both Gary Craig and Jerry Freeman seem to think my post was hogwash.

If so, can either of them name a dictator, a spokesman for a dictatorship, or anyone who believes a certain form dictatorship is the best form of government, who has said that they believe that Oswald alone killed President Kennedy?

Can they name even one?

The appeal of a conspiracy thinking to these people is obvious.

Yes, one can name people who believe in Democracy who believe in the JFK Conspiracy. One can also find such people in the past who believed in a world-wide Jewish conspiracy, or a world-wide Catholic conspiracy, or a world-wide Free Mason conspiracy. Those beliefs used to be very common throughout America in the past before they fell out of fashion.

Give me a name and site it of a dictator or a spokesman for a dictatorship who believe Oswald acted alone. So simply state that no, you can?t come up with one.

I can give the name of some who did support conspiracy, like Khrushchev and Castro. And there are probably several others I don?t know. I the rest of them have figured out that they can help the American JFK conspiracy theory if they remain silent.

You should start a seperate thread. This has nothing to do with the discussion.

You can title it"Joe's Hogwash".



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Re: A snapshot into the mind of Dr. Cyril Wecht
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2018, 01:10:29 PM »

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: A snapshot into the mind of Dr. Cyril Wecht
« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2018, 02:03:54 AM »

My posts have nothing to do with this thread?

Gary, what are the first few sentences of the initial post of this thread?

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I have observed that over the years the majority of WC critics have come from the left of the political spectrum. IMO, their political leanings have influenced in one form or another their view of the WC conclusions. To date I'm not aware of any criticism or rejection from the right of the conclusions reached by the WC other than that offered by Roger Stone with his theory that Lyndon Johnson was responsible for the assassination.

I point out that pushing a government conspiracy appeals equally to the far right as it does to the far left.

Roger Stone is the only right winger who pushes the government conspiracy angle?

What about James Fetzer? He was a leading spokesman for the CT side for many years. I am certain there are many posters here who do, or at least who used to, think well of him. He?s a big believer in Large Secret Jewish conspiracies. He has also become a Holocaust denier. If he is not a far right CTer, who is?

Then there is Michael T. Griffith. He has been a popular ?Go-To? expert on discounting the neurological spasm explanation for JFK going backwards from the headshot, on the strength of his pulling the wool over a doctor?s eyes and not informing him of film showing what happens when a goat is shot through the brain. And getting a statement from that doctor that the neurological spasm theory seemed an unlikely explanation. Even doctors should withhold opinions until they have observed a real-life animal being shot through the brain. Well, our good Michael T. Griffith is also a fan on the Confederate States of American, as can be seen at his website below:

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with articles on ?The War of Northern Aggression? and ?The War for Southern Independence?. I think we can all agree that Michael T. Griffith is a far-right winger.

And these are just a couple from the top of my head. I?m sure with a little digging, others can be found.

The reasons why a U. S. Government Conspiracy appeals to both the far-left wingers and the far-right wingers are obvious. Neither are fans of democratic government. Anything that states that democratic government doesn?t work, like because it is subject to seizure and control by Large-Secret-Enduring Conspiracies is a notion that both are going to support.

Offline Oscar Navarro

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Re: A snapshot into the mind of Dr. Cyril Wecht
« Reply #35 on: December 02, 2018, 02:55:50 PM »
Let me rephrase my observation. I haven't seen anybody from the right write a book and make the case publicly other than Roger Stone in the US. I believe that Charles de Gaulle was a conspiracist and he was more right of center than most of the modern European leaders and he was not what one would consider an anti democratic political figure. As to Jim Fetzer being a Holocaust denier does not automatically move a person's political stance to the right of center. There are plenty of Holocaust deniers who are left to far left of center. just to name a few there's old reliable Lewis Farrakhan, Linda Sarsour, Bobby Fischer and various Muslim leaders from across the globe. IMO, with the left now adopting a more pro-Palestinian and anti-Jewish/Zionist world view it's people from the left who are more prone to adopt pro Muslim attitudes and views while the opposite can be said to those from the right of the political spectrum.  As to Michael Griffith just because a person adopts a pro-Confederate position does not make that position anti-democratic. Racist, yes. But if you would read the Confederate Constitution and followed the history of the Confederacy and the formation of it's government it was centered more on the rights of the individual  states as having supremacy and against the controls that would be inherent in a federal government.

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Re: A snapshot into the mind of Dr. Cyril Wecht
« Reply #35 on: December 02, 2018, 02:55:50 PM »

Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: A snapshot into the mind of Dr. Cyril Wecht
« Reply #36 on: December 02, 2018, 03:52:42 PM »
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My posts have nothing to do with this thread?

Gary, what are the first few sentences of the initial post of this thread?

I point out that pushing a government conspiracy appeals equally to the far right as it does to the far left.

Roger Stone is the only right winger who pushes the government conspiracy angle?

What about James Fetzer? He was a leading spokesman for the CT side for many years. I am certain there are many posters here who do, or at least who used to, think well of him. He?s a big believer in Large Secret Jewish conspiracies. He has also become a Holocaust denier. If he is not a far right CTer, who is?

Then there is Michael T. Griffith. He has been a popular ?Go-To? expert on discounting the neurological spasm explanation for JFK going backwards from the headshot, on the strength of his pulling the wool over a doctor?s eyes and not informing him of film showing what happens when a goat is shot through the brain. And getting a statement from that doctor that the neurological spasm theory seemed an unlikely explanation. Even doctors should withhold opinions until they have observed a real-life animal being shot through the brain. Well, our good Michael T. Griffith is also a fan on the Confederate States of American, as can be seen at his website below:

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

with articles on ?The War of Northern Aggression? and ?The War for Southern Independence?. I think we can all agree that Michael T. Griffith is a far-right winger.

And these are just a couple from the top of my head. I?m sure with a little digging, others can be found.

The reasons why a U. S. Government Conspiracy appeals to both the far-left wingers and the far-right wingers are obvious. Neither are fans of democratic government. Anything that states that democratic government doesn?t work, like because it is subject to seizure and control by Large-Secret-Enduring Conspiracies is a notion that both are going to support.

Just to add one figure: Jim Garrison. Garrison called himself a "conservative libertarian" which is clearly on the political right. But his description of the US as being secretly run by a cabal of militarists and businessmen who got together (somehow) to kill JFK is remarkably similar to the leftwing's  conspiracy view of the country assassination.

It's also interesting to note that one of the leading political commentators on the left - Noam Chosky - is a "lone assassin" believer.

The conspiracy advocates on the hard right and left have obvious differences but they seem to have the same sort of view of how the US is run. Or who "runs it." And both have this overly romantic view (in my opinion) of JFK; that he was a threat to the secret power brokers who really run the country. And it was for that, e.g. he was going to "end" the Vietnam war or break up the MIC, that he was killed.

Your comments and mine are directly related to the OP. This isn't hijacking a thread; it's returning it to the original post.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 05:12:08 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: A snapshot into the mind of Dr. Cyril Wecht
« Reply #37 on: December 02, 2018, 04:19:05 PM »
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Let me rephrase my observation. I haven't seen anybody from the right write a book and make the case publicly other than Roger Stone in the US. I believe that Charles de Gaulle was a conspiracist and he was more right of center than most of the modern European leaders and he was not what one would consider an anti democratic political figure. As to Jim Fetzer being a Holocaust denier does not automatically move a person's political stance to the right of center. There are plenty of Holocaust deniers who are left to far left of center. just to name a few there's old reliable Lewis Farrakhan, Linda Sarsour, Bobby Fischer and various Muslim leaders from across the globe. IMO, with the left now adopting a more pro-Palestinian and anti-Jewish/Zionist world view it's people from the left who are more prone to adopt pro Muslim attitudes and views while the opposite can be said to those from the right of the political spectrum.  As to Michael Griffith just because a person adopts a pro-Confederate position does not make that position anti-democratic. Racist, yes. But if you would read the Confederate Constitution and followed the history of the Confederacy and the formation of it's government it was centered more on the rights of the individual  states as having supremacy and against the controls that would be inherent in a federal government.

As I noted above, Jim Garrison was on the political right. He called himself a "conservative libertarian".

Another figure is Lew Rockwell, a libertarian/rightwinger. His site runs many of the pieces written by Fetzer and he himself (the last I recall) was a proponent of Stone's views that LBJ killed JFK. He's kind of an obscure figure.

And remember that the Liberty Lobby, a far right wing organization, published a  piece claiming that E. Howard Hunt was one of the assassins (he was one of the "three tramps"). Hunt sued them for libel and Mark Lane, certainly no rightwinger, defended them.

We see popping up every now and then this very weird alliance between the far right and far left when it comes to the assassination. They disagree on nearly everything except, apparently, that JFK was killed by "the government", e.g., Hoover, LBJ, the CIA et al.


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Re: A snapshot into the mind of Dr. Cyril Wecht
« Reply #37 on: December 02, 2018, 04:19:05 PM »

 

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