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Author Topic: Bill Shelley on Steps  (Read 3881 times)

Online Alan Ford

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #30 on: December 02, 2018, 12:20:03 AM »
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Regarding Allan Ford, one can only wonder whether or not he ever found the blown-up  *Willis 5* I referred him to (one assumes that he did, and that he's simply too prideful/defensive/arrogant to admit that I was right -- i.e., that "his" putative Cavelry wasn't  wearing a headscarf that afternoon and therefore should not  be mistaken for the real Calvery, who was),

:D

Mr Graves seems to be laboring under the unfortunate notion that Willis 5 was taken at the same time as this Couch frame!



Quote
and whether or not he was able to make out the DARK HEADSCARF "our" (largish, tallish) Calvery was wearing in Darnell, not to mention one of the bold-and-dark HORIZONTAL STRIPES (so plainly visible in the Z-film) in Calvery's skirt, which skirt, with stripe, is visible' -- but only just -- in blown-up crops of Darnell.

'But only just'? That's certainly one way of putting it!
To quote the leading specialist in the field:
'a smidgen of one of those stripes can barely be made out in a blow up'
I guess some people will see what they want to see  :D

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #30 on: December 02, 2018, 12:20:03 AM »

Online Thomas Graves

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #31 on: December 02, 2018, 12:21:40 AM »
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And your evidence that Ms Calvery and her dressed-in-all-white-including-a-white-headscarf colleague were siamese twins is?

I note you haven't addressed the extreme tone contrast in Darnell. Ho hum!



Why-----------btw-----------does 'Gloria's' skirt trend sharply upwards from left to right? Could it be that you've been looking at this wrong?


Alan,

When you suggest that her skirt is oh-so-improbably "trending sharply upward," I believe you are conflating her skirt with the side of the face of the woman behind her.

-- Tommy  :)

Online Alan Ford

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #32 on: December 02, 2018, 12:28:31 AM »
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Alan,

When you suggest that her skirt is oh-so-improbably "trending sharply upward," I believe you are conflating her skirt with the side of the face of the woman behind her.

-- Tommy  :)

I believe you are right, Mr Graves, and I happily concede the point!  Thumb1:

So------that teeny-tiny sliver of skirt that comes into view contains enough information for you to see the pattern of Ms Calvery's skirt?





Are you being serious?

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #32 on: December 02, 2018, 12:28:31 AM »

Online Brian Doyle

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Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #33 on: December 02, 2018, 12:32:19 AM »
Alan is pretending he doesn't notice that Calvery being at the step in Darnell means she was only seconds away from the lobby and was seen headed that direction in Darnell...In order to make his twisting of the evidence work he has to ignore what we see in Darnell and its timing...

Alan isn't being honest here because Molina could have ducked in to the lobby briefly and encountered Calvery before going to the Knoll...Or Clavery could have stood outside with Woman In All White and not gone in until Molina returned from the Knoll...But if Alan were a more honest reader of evidence he would realize Molina described Calvery coming in with another woman...That woman was almost certainly Woman In All White and there you see her in Couch/Darnell headed with Calvery towards the lobby...Alan lacks the basic detective skill that tells you if Calvery were running back to the Depository hysterically she probably went right back in...

1)  Molina follows Truly and Baker in to the lobby after letting their priority entry precede him...

2)  He follows Baker & Truly in to the lobby while Calvery and Woman In All White continue their movement towards the Depository front door...

3)  Calvery and Woman In All White enter the lobby continuing their announcement that Kennedy had been shot where Molina sees them...

4)  Molina exits and heads up to the Knoll...

This makes much more sense because it follows the timing for Calvery that we can see in Couch/Darnell that Alan is ignoring...The Prayer Man people depend on a following of inaccurate testimony to make their false evidence work...Alan ignores that there is no photo or spoken evidence for this long delay by Calvery and Woman In All White...

Online Brian Doyle

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Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #34 on: December 02, 2018, 12:40:11 AM »
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I believe you are right, Mr Graves, and I happily concede the point!  Thumb1:

So------that teeny-tiny sliver of skirt that comes into view contains enough information for you to see the pattern of Ms Calvery's skirt?

Are you being serious?


YES...Who do you think you are fooling Mr Ford?...The argument was accompanied by a citation of the Woman In All White who is standing next to Calvery in both Zapruder and Darnell...You have ignored this each and every time it has been mentioned while pretending you are arguing honestly...

As you keep repeatedly ignoring while playing dumb and pretending you are asking sincere questions, the combination of the spoken testimony that places Calvery at the steps before Lovelady & Shelley left, along with the Woman In All White, along with Running Woman, as well as the matching top and plaid skirt, places the certainty of Graves' Calvery in the beyond reasonable doubt range and PROVES it...You are ignoring the converging evidence Mr Ford...You shouldn't be allowed to do that on a research site that considers itself serious or credible...
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 12:42:55 AM by Brian Doyle »

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Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #34 on: December 02, 2018, 12:40:11 AM »

Online Brian Doyle

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Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #35 on: December 02, 2018, 12:53:45 AM »
Alan is a bad photo analyst...A talented photo analyst like myself can see the short-length top on Calvery at the steps that exactly matches the short-length top Calvery is wearing in Zapruder...You can see it plain as day in Couch/Darnell when sized against the plaid skirt...

You're done Mr Ford...

Online Alan Ford

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #36 on: December 02, 2018, 01:09:54 AM »


Mr Shelley makes a big deal of the encounter with Ms Calvery, making sure to give her name, though omiting to mention that she's a close friend of his. (That might look a little too convenient.)

Point of the exercise: I was on the front steps, but I left them very quickly!

Something makes Mr Shelley change this simple story, and, with cooperation from Mr Lovelady, even add in a visit to the railroad yard.

Could it have been 'the other girl' whom Mr Molina mentions in his WC testimony? Did she prove a complicating factor?

Remember, remember-------Mr Shelley can neither know nor control who will be interviewed or called to testify by the WC! He can no doubt trust Ms Calvery to back him up should it come to it, but 'the other girl'?
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 01:29:39 AM by Alan Ford »

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #36 on: December 02, 2018, 01:09:54 AM »

Online Thomas Graves

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #37 on: December 02, 2018, 01:28:41 AM »
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Thomas:   Alan isn't to be taken seriously...He says in one breath that he signs-on to Tall Woman being Calvery but then ignores that she is visibly taller and huskier than the woman he randomly points-out in the post shooting scene...Alan is like Bart...When soundly defeated by the evidence they both go out and sincerely pick a random person that grinds against the evidence in order to create a sidetrack away from a specific point they just lost badly...All we are doing here Mr Graves is falling for more sucker-bait from Alan that we are foolish enough to fall for by discussing...Alan will then do what he always does and answer with another outrageous diversion like his claim that Lovelady in Altgens is actually Molina...This sort of thing would get him thrown off other boards, which is why he doesn't do it over there...Alan ignores that his Calvery can't be the real one by her height alone...Plus he ignores that the known timing of Calvery running to the steps prohibits his Calvery from being the real one...Ford's Calvery is down by the Knoll long after Calvery ran back to the steps...When you point this out Alan doesn't answer it...

Nope, the woman labeled "Peggy Burney" in Zapruder is Running Woman, as is proven by her white blouse and black skirt (that Alan ignores no matter how many times you mention it)...I personally think she stayed behind in place and watched the limousine recede towards the underpass in shock to continue to view the event...She was focused and hadn't noticed or cared that Calvery and Woman In All White took off running...Once she finished watching the whole event she realized Calvery and Woman In All White had run back to the steps so she followed and was caught in Couch/Darnell as "Running Woman"...

You can see Calvery's scarf just emerge from behind the Secret Service Man's head in Willis 5...I don't know why you are referencing Willis 5...It is useless as far as what we are talking about and serves as a confusing, irrelevant diversion...

Do us a favor and learn the evidence...In Zapruder Woman In All White is labeled "Betty Thornton"...Running Woman is labeled "Peggy Burney"...You are only helping Alan confuse the issue by getting basic elements of the evidence wrong...The woman labeled "Peggy Burney" in Zapruder has the exact matching white blouse and black skirt as Running Woman and is her...


Brian,

Yes, you're right -- Thornton has been identified as "Woman In All White" by somebody (you???), not as "Running Woman".

My bad.

I was going from memory, Brian, always a dangerous thing to do when it comes to the JFK assassination, yes?

That's why I qualified it by saying, "I believe ...".

Did you happen to catch that?

When are you going to drop the off-putting, arrogant attitude, Brian? 

...
...

As regards my "confusing, irrelevant, diverting" post, above, do you really think my explication of how Alan's "Calvary" could be easily determined by anyone to not be who he thinks she is ... by simply finding and looking at the person in question in that particular blown-up Willis 5 frame which is viewable at the EF?

Really?

Would you rather that I hadn't, so that Alan could continue to derail this thread and deflect our points by expounding on his spurious "Hey, Maybe This Is Calvery!" theory?

LOL

-- Tommy  :)
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 01:31:17 AM by Thomas Graves »

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #37 on: December 02, 2018, 01:28:41 AM »

Online Thomas Graves

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #38 on: December 02, 2018, 01:34:20 AM »
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I believe you are right, Mr Graves, and I happily concede the point!  Thumb1:

So------that teeny-tiny sliver of skirt that comes into view contains enough information for you to see the pattern of Ms Calvery's skirt?





Are you being serious?


Alan,

You ask, "Are you being serious?"

I retort, "Have you had your eyes checked within the last ten years, Alan?"

-- Tommy  :)

PS  Got any relatively good-resolution, cropped blow-ups of the subject matter in question, or only this fleeting, moving, hard-to-focus-in-on-so-quickly one (the Darnell gif?
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 01:39:32 AM by Thomas Graves »

Online Alan Ford

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #39 on: December 02, 2018, 01:37:37 AM »
Ms Gloria Calvery could be pretty much anywhere at the time Darnell is filming the front steps.

For instance, this could be her, some 25 seconds after the shooting, in a spot very close to where she had been for that shooting:



No reason this can't be her. At least we can see more than a flickering sliver of this woman's skirt, and it fits what we see in Zapruder.

No reason either she can't be lost in the crowd elsewhere!

What counts is that Mr Molina's testimony explicitly rules out her loud arrival at the Depository entrance before Mr Roy Truly's  Thumb1:

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #39 on: December 02, 2018, 01:37:37 AM »

 

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