Bill Shelley on Steps

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Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2018, 01:09:54 AM »


Mr Shelley makes a big deal of the encounter with Ms Calvery, making sure to give her name, though omiting to mention that she's a close friend of his. (That might look a little too convenient.)

Point of the exercise: I was on the front steps, but I left them very quickly!

Something makes Mr Shelley change this simple story, and, with cooperation from Mr Lovelady, even add in a visit to the railroad yard.

Could it have been 'the other girl' whom Mr Molina mentions in his WC testimony? Did she prove a complicating factor?

Remember, remember-------Mr Shelley can neither know nor control who will be interviewed or called to testify by the WC! He can no doubt trust Ms Calvery to back him up should it come to it, but 'the other girl'?
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 01:29:39 AM by Alan Ford »

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2018, 01:09:54 AM »

Offline Thomas Graves

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2018, 01:34:20 AM »
I believe you are right, Mr Graves, and I happily concede the point!  Thumb1:

So------that teeny-tiny sliver of skirt that comes into view contains enough information for you to see the pattern of Ms Calvery's skirt?





Are you being serious?


Alan,

You ask, "Are you being serious?"

I retort, "Have you had your eyes checked within the last ten years, Alan?"

-- Tommy  :)

PS  Got any relatively good-resolution, cropped blow-ups of the subject matter in question, or only this fleeting, moving, hard-to-focus-in-on-so-quickly one (the Darnell gif?
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 01:39:32 AM by Thomas Graves »

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2018, 01:34:20 AM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2018, 01:37:37 AM »
Ms Gloria Calvery could be pretty much anywhere at the time Darnell is filming the front steps.

For instance, this could be her, some 25 seconds after the shooting, in a spot very close to where she had been for that shooting:



No reason this can't be her. At least we can see more than a flickering sliver of this woman's skirt, and it fits what we see in Zapruder.

No reason either she can't be lost in the crowd elsewhere!

What counts is that Mr Molina's testimony explicitly rules out her loud arrival at the Depository entrance before Mr Roy Truly's  Thumb1:

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2018, 01:37:37 AM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2018, 01:38:42 AM »

Alan,

You ask, "Are you being serious?"

I retort, "Have you had your eyes checked within the last ten years, Alan?"

-- Tommy  :)

I wish I had your eyesight, Mr Graves-------------why, it's so sharp you can see things that aren't even there!  :D

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2018, 01:38:42 AM »

Offline Thomas Graves

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2018, 01:46:38 AM »
Ms Gloria Calvery could be pretty much anywhere at the time Darnell is filming the front steps.

For instance, this could be her, some 25 seconds after the shooting, in a spot very close to where she had been for that shooting:



No reason this can't be her. At least we can see more than a flickering sliver of this woman's skirt, and it fits what we see in Zapruder.

No reason either she can't be lost in the crowd elsewhere!

What counts is that Mr Molina's testimony explicitly rules out her loud arrival at the Depository entrance before Mr Roy Truly's  Thumb1:

Alan,

So, you simply can't ken Calvery's bulk, height, black blouse (meeting her neutral-colored skirt in exactly the same way), her black head scarf, the same dark horizontal line in her skirt, and the "synchronicity"-if-you-will of her all-in-white colleague's just happening to be there ... next to her?  In Darnell, I mean?

And you STILL haven't found that blown-up Willis 5 at the EF, have you.

-- Tommy :)
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 01:49:23 AM by Thomas Graves »

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2018, 01:46:38 AM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2018, 01:50:23 AM »
Alan,

So, you simply can't ken Calvery's bulk, height, black blouse (meeting her neutral-colored skirt in exactly the same way), her black head scarf, the same dark horizontal line in her skirt, and the "synchronicity"-if-you-will of her all-in-white colleague's just happening to be there ... next to her?  In Darnell, I mean?

-- Tommy :)

We don't know that's her colleague, Mr Graves!

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2018, 01:50:23 AM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2018, 01:51:12 AM »

And you STILL haven't found that blown-up Willis 5 at the EF, have you.

-- Tommy :)

Willis 5? Irrelevant!

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2018, 01:51:12 AM »

Offline Thomas Graves

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2018, 04:13:47 AM »
I wish I had your eyesight, Mr Graves-------------why, it's so sharp you can see things that aren't even there!  :D



Alan,

With all due respect, speaking of my alleged lack of visual acuity (or my overly fanciful imagination - lol), maybe you should ask Forum-member Robert Prudhome to tell you how I spotted, on a EF thread, the partial silhouette of a woman's face only just "peeking out" from behind the head of another woman in Altgens 6, and how I had to tell him exactly how to look for it in order to "discover" it / "see" it (the partial outline of her face, that is) ...

-- Tommy  :)

PS  If you were only a little more open-minded, I could probably help even you to see the obviously bold, dark (but fuzzy in the poor resolution Darnell frames at that distance) horizontal stripe in that (non-trending-upward-on-the-right) sliver of Calvery's skirt -- but not in a GIF, dude, in a blown-up, non-moving frame.

(But then again, seein' as how you couldn't even "see" the photo I was referring you to that Clive Largey had posted on page 5 of Prudhome's EF thread, probably not ...)

LOL

« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 04:37:07 AM by Thomas Graves »

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2018, 04:13:47 AM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2018, 12:16:33 PM »
Now!

Mr. BALL - Do you have any idea how long it was from the time you heard those three sounds or three noises until you saw Truly and Baker going into the building?
Mr. SHELLEY - It would have to be 3 or 4 minutes I would say because this girl that ran back up there was down near where the car was when the President was hit.
Mr. BALL - She ran back up to the door and you had still remained standing there?

Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.

Mr. BALL - You heard the shots. And how long after that was it before Gloria Calvary came up?
Mr. LOVELADY - Oh, approximately 3 minutes, I would say.
Mr. BALL - Three minutes is a long time.


It is----------let us remind ourselves-----------passing strange that we have gone from Messrs. Shelley and Lovelady's same-day statements to the above.

Here's what's in those same-day statements:

"I ran across the street to the corner of the park and ran into a girl crying and she said the President had been shot. This girl's name is Gloria Calvery who is an employee of this same building." (Bill Shelley affidavit, 11/22/63)
-----------No room for ambiguity here: he met his good friend Ms Calvery out at 'the corner of the park'!

"He said immediately after hearing the shots he and SHELL(E)Y started running towards the Presidential car, but it sped away west on Elm Street under the Triple Underpass." (Billy Lovelady FBI report, 11/22/63).
-----------No room for ambiguity here: the pair left the steps very quickly indeed!

On any scenario------------Ms Calvery dashed back to the Depository before Officer Baker got there; Ms Calvery took some time to reach the Depository; Ms Calvery met Mr Shelley on the 'island' but Mr Lovelady at the steps; etc.----------no serious person could doubt that Messrs. Shelley and Lovelady are in cahoots to hide something from the WC.

Passing strange also is the pair's similarly elastic time estimate of how long their supposed visit to the railroad yard took.

Passing strange also also is the fact that Mr Lovelady shows up------contrary to every impression his statements have given-------on the front steps several minutes later in the Hughes film.

There must be serious doubt over whether Mr Shelley was actually on those steps when the motorcade was passing.

Did Mr Shelley hear after the assassination that Ms Calvery had come to the steps loudly telling everyone about what she'd seen? Did Mr Lovelady tell hm? Did he then decide to profit from the fact that he and Ms Calvery were good friends by inventing an encounter with her that would lend extra credibility to his own story of having been on the steps? And did this initial lie come back to haunt him?  :-X

Most importantly of all! Why would he have been so anxious to place himself out on the steps at the time of the assassination?

I can't help wondering whether the key to this might not lie in the words Captain Fritz cribbed from Agent Bookhout:
'out with Bill Shelley in front'

« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 12:21:48 PM by Alan Ford »

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2018, 12:16:33 PM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2018, 12:39:48 PM »
Alternatively!

Mr Shelley was on those steps for the assassination, but immediately slipped back inside, and was one of the "several people standing around" in the front lobby seen by Officer Baker (Affidavit, 11/22/63) when he dashed into the building.*

Did Mr Shelley see something there in the vestibule he shouldn't have? Did his boss Mr Truly later that day prevail upon him to 'stay the hell outside' in the story he told to the authorities?


*Note that Mr Roy Truly would contradict Baker when talking to the FBI: "They saw no one there (in the front lobby, AF)"!

 

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