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Author Topic: Bill Shelley on Steps  (Read 4256 times)

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2018, 08:59:45 PM »
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Alan,

If you were to visually compare your photo and the EF photo I just now tried to refer you to (have you found it yet?), and if you were to use that photo to help you find other photos (e.g., Altgens 6?) showing the same girl, you'd see that, unlike Calvery, she wasn't wearing a headscarf, and therefore couldn't have been Calvery (because Calvery is definitely wearing a headscarf in the Z-film (and in Betzner 3, iirc).

-- Tommy  :)

Mr Graves, I can find no photo whatsoever from Mr Clive Largey on page 5 of that thread.

The skirt of 'Gloria Calvery' in Darnell is much lighter in tone than her top. Zapruder does not show such an extreme difference on Ms Calvery.

The Darnell ID is---------in short----------most fanciful!

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2018, 08:59:45 PM »

Online Brian Doyle

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Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2018, 09:30:12 PM »
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The skirt of 'Gloria Calvery' in Darnell is much lighter in tone than her top. Zapruder does not show such an extreme difference on Ms Calvery.

Wrong...Different film and equipment...

What Alan is ignoring is his choice for Calvery has a dark skirt that is too dark to be Calvery's green skirt...

Alan ignores that Woman In All White is next to Calvery in both Zapruder and Darnell and pretends he is still arguing honestly...


Online Thomas Graves

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2018, 10:02:44 PM »
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Mr Graves, I can find no photo whatsoever from Mr Clive Largey on page 5 of that thread.

The skirt of 'Gloria Calvery' in Darnell is much lighter in tone than her top. Zapruder does not show such an extreme difference on Ms Calvery.

The Darnell ID is---------in short----------most fanciful!


Alan,

1 )  Go to the JFK Assassination Debate - The Education Forum.

2 )  Find Robert Prudhomme's thread, "Did Gloria Calvery Almost Catch Up With Marion Baker?"

3 )  Go to page 5 of said thread.

4 )  The photo/frame I'm talking about is in the second post from the top.

5 )  It was posted there by Clive Largey on September 2, 2015, (back when I foolishly thought that "Running Woman" on Elm Street Extension in Couch-Darnell might be Calvery, ergo my foolish comments on the thread).

6 )  According to the EF's automatic notations, this same (Willis 5) blow-up had apparently been posted one day earlier by Robert Prudhomme.

7 )  To reiterate what I told you in my earlier post,"your Calvery" is probably the gal standing to the immediate left of the girl wearing the red plaid skirt.

8 )  Note that although in this Willis 5 blow-up, the real Gloria Calvery is hidden behind the highest-standing Secret Service agent in the "Queen Mary" follow-up car, Calvery's dressed-in-all-white-including-a-white-headscarf colleague is visible, and that she has been labeled with the number "7" in this blown-up Willis 5 frame (if you can find it, that is -- lol).

Good luck,

-- Tommy  :)
« Last Edit: December 01, 2018, 10:10:35 PM by Thomas Graves »

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2018, 10:02:44 PM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2018, 10:10:57 PM »
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8) Note that although in this Willis 5 blow-up, the real Gloria Calvery is hidden behind the highest-standing Secret Service agent in the "Queen Mary" follow-up car, Calvery's dressed-in-all-white-including-a-white-headscarf colleague is visible, and that she has been labeled with the number "7" in this blown-up Willis 5 frame (if you can find it -- lol).


And your evidence that Ms Calvery and her dressed-in-all-white-including-a-white-headscarf colleague were siamese twins is?

I note you haven't addressed the extreme tone contrast in Darnell. Ho hum!



Why-----------btw-----------does 'Gloria's' skirt trend sharply upwards from left to right? Could it be that you've been looking at this wrong?




Online Thomas Graves

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2018, 10:23:14 PM »
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Alan,

1 )  Go to the JFK Assassination Debate - The Education Forum.

2 )  Find Robert Prudhomme's thread, "Did Gloria Calvery Almost Catch Up With Marion Baker?"

3 )  Go to page 5 of said thread.

4 )  The photo/frame (Willis 5 blow up, actually) I'm talking about is in the second post from the top.

5 )  It was posted there by Clive Largey on September 2, 2015, (back when I foolishly thought that "Running Woman" on Elm Street Extension in Couch-Darnell might be Calvery, ergo my foolish comments on the thread).

6 )  According to the EF's automatic notations, this same (Willis 5) blow-up had apparently been posted one day earlier by Robert Prudhomme.

7 )  To reiterate what I told you in my earlier post,"your Calvery" is probably the gal standing to the immediate left of the girl wearing the red plaid skirt in this Willis 5 blow-up.

8 )  Note that although in this Willis 5 blow-up the real Gloria Calvery is hidden behind the highest-standing Secret Service agent in the "Queen Mary" follow-up car, Calvery's dressed-in-all-white-including-a-white-headscarf colleague is visible, and that she has been labeled with the number "7" in this blown-up Willis 5 frame (if you can find it, that is -- lol).

Good luck,

-- Tommy  :)


EDIT:

Once you've found that thread at the EF, I suggest that you also take a look at the labeled-by-Chris Davidson Z-frame (number 72) in his second post (the eleventh one down from the top; click on it -- it gets really big) ON PAGE 1.

In my humble opinion, "your Calvery" has been labeled "4" in that frame, and the gal wearing the red plaid skirt (whom Chris and I thought might be Running Girl/Calvery) is partially hidden behind her (and is labeled "3").

« Last Edit: December 01, 2018, 10:34:23 PM by Thomas Graves »

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2018, 10:23:14 PM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2018, 10:36:36 PM »
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EDIT:

Once you've found that thread at the EF, I suggest that you also take a look at the labeled-by-Chris Davidson Z-frame (number 72) in his post (the eleventh one down from the top) ON PAGE 1.

In my humble opinion, "your Calvery" has been labeled "4" in that frame, and the gal wearing the red plaid skirt (whom Chris and I thought might be Running Girl/Calvery) is mostly hidden behind her, and is labeled "3".

I know the thread well, thank you Mr Graves, but it's not my job to do homework assignments set by you!

Now! How about you show us what you're talking about, e.g. your cross-referencing of 'my' Ms Calvery in Couch with 'Altgens etc', and then we can talk? Sound good?  Thumb1:

Why do you still evade the issue of the tone contrast between Darnell-Gloria's upper and lower body? If Zapruder is anything to go by, it should look something like an upside-down version of this:



But it doesn't! It just looks ridiculous...

You did soopa-doopa work on the Betzner & Zapruder Calvery IDs, Mr Graves, but allowed yourself to get overexcited on Darnell. 2 out of 3 ain't bad  ;)


Online Brian Doyle

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Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2018, 11:29:03 PM »
Thomas:   Have you read anything I've written?...Running Woman is the woman in the white blouse and black skirt who is next to Gloria Calvery in Zapruder...You can identify her white blouse and black skirt in Couch/Darnell...She ran back behind Calvery and Woman In All White because she was standing with them as a group...She is labeled "Peggy Burney" in the Newsweek Zapruder frame with the names given to the spectators...

Alan is switching the topic because he's trying to avoid honestly discussing Woman In All White and how she proves the woman next to her is Calvery...
« Last Edit: December 01, 2018, 11:31:20 PM by Brian Doyle »

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Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2018, 11:29:03 PM »

Online Thomas Graves

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2018, 11:39:16 PM »
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Wrong...Different film and equipment...

What Alan is ignoring is his choice for Calvery has a dark skirt that is too dark to be Calvery's green skirt...

Alan ignores that Woman In All White is next to Calvery in both Zapruder and Darnell and pretends he is still arguing honestly...

Brian,

Woman-All-In-White was standing TWO people away from Calvery (in their clutch of headscarf-wearing colleagues-plus-one) in the Z-frame, and right next to her in Couch-Darnell.  The gal who'd stood between them in the Z-frame (can't  recall her name at the moment) evidently decided to boogie back to the TSBD by a more circuitous and time-consuming route than up the sidewalk with Calvery and Woman-In-All-White, i.e., up the grassy slope, out one of rear exits, and down the Elm Street Extension like a bat out of you-know-where.

Regarding Allan Ford, one can only wonder whether or not he ever found the blown-up  Willis 5 frame I referred him to (one assumes that he did, and that he's simply too prideful/defensive/arrogant to admit that I was right -- i.e., that "his" putative Cavelry wasn't  wearing a headscarf that afternoon and therefore should not be mistaken for the real Gloria Calvery, who was), and whether or not he was able to make out the DARK HEADSCARF "our" (largish, tallish) Calvery was wearing in Darnell, not to mention one of the bold-and-dark HORIZONTAL STRIPES (so plainly visible in the Z-film) in Calvery's skirt, which skirt, with stripe, is visible' -- but only just -- in blown-up crops of Darnell.

-- Tommy  :)

PS  Relax, Brian.  Like Running Woman, I'm  about three steps ahead of you.

EDIT:  I believe that mysto gal (who was standing between Calvery and WIAW in the Z-film, and who soon became "Running Woman" in Couch-Darnell) has been shown to have been a Ms Peggy THORNTON, or some-such thing ...


« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 01:09:14 AM by Thomas Graves »

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2018, 11:39:16 PM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2018, 12:06:38 AM »
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-------------------Mr Joe Molina's testimony gives to understand that Ms Calvery's arrival at the front of the Depository building was significantly later than Messrs. Shelley, Lovelady & Frazier would have us believe, and certainly well after Mr Truly entered the building

Mr Joe Molina is a particularly valuable witness because he was fired from the Depository on December 13 and so can have had no residual loyalty to the place that had shown him none. Hardly the man to follow a Truly-imposed script!

Mr. Molina. I just stood there and shook my head. I didn't want to think what was happening, you know, but I wanted to find out so I went down to where the grassy slope is, you know, and I was trying to gather pieces of conversation of the people that had been close by there and somebody said "Well, the President has been shot and I think they shot somebody else", something like that.
(...)
Mr. BALL. (...) did you see Truly actually go into the building?
Mr. Molina. I saw him go in.
Mr. Ball. Where were you standing?
Mr. Molina. Right at the front door; right at the front door.
Mr. Ball. Outside the front door?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes, outside the front door I was standing; the door was right behind me.
Mr. Ball. Were you standing on the steps?
Mr. Molina. Yes, on the uppermost step.
Mr. Ball. You actually saw Truly go
Mr. Molina. Yeah.
Mr. Ball. You were still standing there?
Mr. Molina. Yes.
Mr. Ball. How long was it after you heard the shots?
Mr. Molina. Oh, I would venture to say maybe 20 or 30 seconds afterwards.
Mr. Ball. Had somebody come up and said the President was shot before
you saw Truly go in?
Mr. Molina. No.

Mr. Ball. Do you know a girl named Gloria Calvary?
Mr. Molina. Yes.
Mr. Ball.  Did Gloria come up?
Mr.. MOLINA. Yes, she came. I was in the lobby standing there and she came in with this other girl.

Mr. Ball.   What did she say?
Mr. MOLINA. She said "Oh, my God, Joe, he's been shot." They were both horrified. I said "Are you sure he was shot?" She said "Oh, Joe ,I'm sure. I saw his hair fly up and I'm sure he was shot" something to that extent.


Event 1!: Mr Molina stands in front of the front door in shock--he watches Mr Truly run in past him
Event 2!! Mr Molina goes down and out to the grassy area
Event 3!!! Mr Molina goes back up the steps and into the lobby
Event 4!!!! Mr Molina gets talking in the lobby with Ms Gloria Calvery, who has just arrived

3-4 minutes from shooting to Gloria Calvery's arrrival at the front entrance? Sounds about right!  Thumb1:

Online Brian Doyle

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Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2018, 12:11:04 AM »
Thomas:   Alan isn't to be taken seriously...He says in one breath that he signs-on to Tall Woman being Calvery but then ignores that she is visibly taller and huskier than the woman he randomly points-out in the post shooting scene...Alan is like Bart...When soundly defeated by the evidence they both go out and sincerely pick a random person that grinds against the evidence in order to create a sidetrack away from a specific point they just lost badly...All we are doing here Mr Graves is falling for more sucker-bait from Alan that we are foolish enough to fall for by discussing...Alan will then do what he always does and answer with another outrageous diversion like his claim that Lovelady in Altgens is actually Molina...This sort of thing would get him thrown off other boards, which is why he doesn't do it over there...Alan ignores that his Calvery can't be the real one by her height alone...Plus he ignores that the known timing of Calvery running to the steps prohibits his Calvery from being the real one...Ford's Calvery is down by the Knoll long after Calvery ran back to the steps...When you point this out Alan doesn't answer it...

Nope, the woman labeled "Peggy Burney" in Zapruder is Running Woman, as is proven by her white blouse and black skirt (that Alan ignores no matter how many times you mention it)...I personally think she stayed behind in place and watched the limousine recede towards the underpass in shock to continue to view the event...She was focused and hadn't noticed or cared that Calvery and Woman In All White took off running...Once she finished watching the whole event she realized Calvery and Woman In All White had run back to the steps so she followed and was caught in Couch/Darnell as "Running Woman"...

You can see Calvery's scarf just emerge from behind the Secret Service Man's head in Willis 5...I don't know why you are referencing Willis 5...It is useless as far as what we are talking about and serves as a confusing, irrelevant diversion...

Quote
EDIT:  I believe that gal ("Running Woman") has been shown to have been a Ms Thornton, or some-such thing ...

Do us a favor and learn the evidence...In Zapruder Woman In All White is labeled "Betty Thornton"...Running Woman is labeled "Peggy Burney"...You are only helping Alan confuse the issue by getting basic elements of the evidence wrong...The woman labeled "Peggy Burney" in Zapruder has the exact matching white blouse and black skirt as Running Woman and is her...
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 12:14:54 AM by Brian Doyle »

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Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2018, 12:11:04 AM »

 

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