Bill Shelley on Steps

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Offline Thomas Graves

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2018, 08:44:10 PM »
Alan,

If you were to visually compare your photo and the EF photo I just now tried to refer you to (have you found it yet?), you'd see that "your Calvery" wasn't wearing a headscarf, and therefore couldn't have been Calvery (because Calvery is definitely wearing a headscarf in the Z-film and in Betzner 3.

Also, it would appear that Gloria Calvery was taller that your gal.

-- Tommy  :)
« Last Edit: December 01, 2018, 09:12:30 PM by Thomas Graves »

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2018, 08:44:10 PM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2018, 08:59:45 PM »
Alan,

If you were to visually compare your photo and the EF photo I just now tried to refer you to (have you found it yet?), and if you were to use that photo to help you find other photos (e.g., Altgens 6?) showing the same girl, you'd see that, unlike Calvery, she wasn't wearing a headscarf, and therefore couldn't have been Calvery (because Calvery is definitely wearing a headscarf in the Z-film (and in Betzner 3, iirc).

-- Tommy  :)

Mr Graves, I can find no photo whatsoever from Mr Clive Largey on page 5 of that thread.

The skirt of 'Gloria Calvery' in Darnell is much lighter in tone than her top. Zapruder does not show such an extreme difference on Ms Calvery.

The Darnell ID is---------in short----------most fanciful!

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2018, 08:59:45 PM »

Offline Thomas Graves

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2018, 10:02:44 PM »
Mr Graves, I can find no photo whatsoever from Mr Clive Largey on page 5 of that thread.

The skirt of 'Gloria Calvery' in Darnell is much lighter in tone than her top. Zapruder does not show such an extreme difference on Ms Calvery.

The Darnell ID is---------in short----------most fanciful!


Alan,

1 )  Go to the JFK Assassination Debate - The Education Forum.

2 )  Find Robert Prudhomme's thread, "Did Gloria Calvery Almost Catch Up With Marion Baker?"

3 )  Go to page 5 of said thread.

4 )  The photo/frame I'm talking about is in the second post from the top.

5 )  It was posted there by Clive Largey on September 2, 2015, (back when I foolishly thought that "Running Woman" on Elm Street Extension in Couch-Darnell might be Calvery, ergo my foolish comments on the thread).

6 )  According to the EF's automatic notations, this same (Willis 5) blow-up had apparently been posted one day earlier by Robert Prudhomme.

7 )  To reiterate what I told you in my earlier post,"your Calvery" is probably the gal standing to the immediate left of the girl wearing the red plaid skirt.

8 )  Note that although in this Willis 5 blow-up, the real Gloria Calvery is hidden behind the highest-standing Secret Service agent in the "Queen Mary" follow-up car, Calvery's dressed-in-all-white-including-a-white-headscarf colleague is visible, and that she has been labeled with the number "7" in this blown-up Willis 5 frame (if you can find it, that is -- lol).

Good luck,

-- Tommy  :)
« Last Edit: December 01, 2018, 10:10:35 PM by Thomas Graves »

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2018, 10:02:44 PM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2018, 10:10:57 PM »

8) Note that although in this Willis 5 blow-up, the real Gloria Calvery is hidden behind the highest-standing Secret Service agent in the "Queen Mary" follow-up car, Calvery's dressed-in-all-white-including-a-white-headscarf colleague is visible, and that she has been labeled with the number "7" in this blown-up Willis 5 frame (if you can find it -- lol).


And your evidence that Ms Calvery and her dressed-in-all-white-including-a-white-headscarf colleague were siamese twins is?

I note you haven't addressed the extreme tone contrast in Darnell. Ho hum!



Why-----------btw-----------does 'Gloria's' skirt trend sharply upwards from left to right? Could it be that you've been looking at this wrong?




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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2018, 10:10:57 PM »

Offline Thomas Graves

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2018, 10:23:14 PM »

Alan,

1 )  Go to the JFK Assassination Debate - The Education Forum.

2 )  Find Robert Prudhomme's thread, "Did Gloria Calvery Almost Catch Up With Marion Baker?"

3 )  Go to page 5 of said thread.

4 )  The photo/frame (Willis 5 blow up, actually) I'm talking about is in the second post from the top.

5 )  It was posted there by Clive Largey on September 2, 2015, (back when I foolishly thought that "Running Woman" on Elm Street Extension in Couch-Darnell might be Calvery, ergo my foolish comments on the thread).

6 )  According to the EF's automatic notations, this same (Willis 5) blow-up had apparently been posted one day earlier by Robert Prudhomme.

7 )  To reiterate what I told you in my earlier post,"your Calvery" is probably the gal standing to the immediate left of the girl wearing the red plaid skirt in this Willis 5 blow-up.

8 )  Note that although in this Willis 5 blow-up the real Gloria Calvery is hidden behind the highest-standing Secret Service agent in the "Queen Mary" follow-up car, Calvery's dressed-in-all-white-including-a-white-headscarf colleague is visible, and that she has been labeled with the number "7" in this blown-up Willis 5 frame (if you can find it, that is -- lol).

Good luck,

-- Tommy  :)


EDIT:

Once you've found that thread at the EF, I suggest that you also take a look at the labeled-by-Chris Davidson Z-frame (number 72) in his second post (the eleventh one down from the top; click on it -- it gets really big) ON PAGE 1.

In my humble opinion, "your Calvery" has been labeled "4" in that frame, and the gal wearing the red plaid skirt (whom Chris and I thought might be Running Girl/Calvery) is partially hidden behind her (and is labeled "3").

« Last Edit: December 01, 2018, 10:34:23 PM by Thomas Graves »

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2018, 10:23:14 PM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2018, 10:36:36 PM »

EDIT:

Once you've found that thread at the EF, I suggest that you also take a look at the labeled-by-Chris Davidson Z-frame (number 72) in his post (the eleventh one down from the top) ON PAGE 1.

In my humble opinion, "your Calvery" has been labeled "4" in that frame, and the gal wearing the red plaid skirt (whom Chris and I thought might be Running Girl/Calvery) is mostly hidden behind her, and is labeled "3".

I know the thread well, thank you Mr Graves, but it's not my job to do homework assignments set by you!

Now! How about you show us what you're talking about, e.g. your cross-referencing of 'my' Ms Calvery in Couch with 'Altgens etc', and then we can talk? Sound good?  Thumb1:

Why do you still evade the issue of the tone contrast between Darnell-Gloria's upper and lower body? If Zapruder is anything to go by, it should look something like an upside-down version of this:



But it doesn't! It just looks ridiculous...

You did soopa-doopa work on the Betzner & Zapruder Calvery IDs, Mr Graves, but allowed yourself to get overexcited on Darnell. 2 out of 3 ain't bad  ;)


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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2018, 10:36:36 PM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2018, 12:06:38 AM »
-------------------Mr Joe Molina's testimony gives to understand that Ms Calvery's arrival at the front of the Depository building was significantly later than Messrs. Shelley, Lovelady & Frazier would have us believe, and certainly well after Mr Truly entered the building

Mr Joe Molina is a particularly valuable witness because he was fired from the Depository on December 13 and so can have had no residual loyalty to the place that had shown him none. Hardly the man to follow a Truly-imposed script!

Mr. Molina. I just stood there and shook my head. I didn't want to think what was happening, you know, but I wanted to find out so I went down to where the grassy slope is, you know, and I was trying to gather pieces of conversation of the people that had been close by there and somebody said "Well, the President has been shot and I think they shot somebody else", something like that.
(...)
Mr. BALL. (...) did you see Truly actually go into the building?
Mr. Molina. I saw him go in.
Mr. Ball. Where were you standing?
Mr. Molina. Right at the front door; right at the front door.
Mr. Ball. Outside the front door?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes, outside the front door I was standing; the door was right behind me.
Mr. Ball. Were you standing on the steps?
Mr. Molina. Yes, on the uppermost step.
Mr. Ball. You actually saw Truly go
Mr. Molina. Yeah.
Mr. Ball. You were still standing there?
Mr. Molina. Yes.
Mr. Ball. How long was it after you heard the shots?
Mr. Molina. Oh, I would venture to say maybe 20 or 30 seconds afterwards.
Mr. Ball. Had somebody come up and said the President was shot before
you saw Truly go in?
Mr. Molina. No.

Mr. Ball. Do you know a girl named Gloria Calvary?
Mr. Molina. Yes.
Mr. Ball.  Did Gloria come up?
Mr.. MOLINA. Yes, she came. I was in the lobby standing there and she came in with this other girl.

Mr. Ball.   What did she say?
Mr. MOLINA. She said "Oh, my God, Joe, he's been shot." They were both horrified. I said "Are you sure he was shot?" She said "Oh, Joe ,I'm sure. I saw his hair fly up and I'm sure he was shot" something to that extent.


Event 1!: Mr Molina stands in front of the front door in shock--he watches Mr Truly run in past him
Event 2!! Mr Molina goes down and out to the grassy area
Event 3!!! Mr Molina goes back up the steps and into the lobby
Event 4!!!! Mr Molina gets talking in the lobby with Ms Gloria Calvery, who has just arrived

3-4 minutes from shooting to Gloria Calvery's arrrival at the front entrance? Sounds about right!  Thumb1:

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2018, 12:06:38 AM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2018, 12:20:03 AM »

Regarding Allan Ford, one can only wonder whether or not he ever found the blown-up  *Willis 5* I referred him to (one assumes that he did, and that he's simply too prideful/defensive/arrogant to admit that I was right -- i.e., that "his" putative Cavelry wasn't  wearing a headscarf that afternoon and therefore should not  be mistaken for the real Calvery, who was),

:D

Mr Graves seems to be laboring under the unfortunate notion that Willis 5 was taken at the same time as this Couch frame!



Quote
and whether or not he was able to make out the DARK HEADSCARF "our" (largish, tallish) Calvery was wearing in Darnell, not to mention one of the bold-and-dark HORIZONTAL STRIPES (so plainly visible in the Z-film) in Calvery's skirt, which skirt, with stripe, is visible' -- but only just -- in blown-up crops of Darnell.

'But only just'? That's certainly one way of putting it!
To quote the leading specialist in the field:
'a smidgen of one of those stripes can barely be made out in a blow up'
I guess some people will see what they want to see  :D

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2018, 12:20:03 AM »

Offline Thomas Graves

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2018, 12:21:40 AM »
And your evidence that Ms Calvery and her dressed-in-all-white-including-a-white-headscarf colleague were siamese twins is?

I note you haven't addressed the extreme tone contrast in Darnell. Ho hum!



Why-----------btw-----------does 'Gloria's' skirt trend sharply upwards from left to right? Could it be that you've been looking at this wrong?


Alan,

When you suggest that her skirt is oh-so-improbably "trending sharply upward," I believe you are conflating her skirt with the side of the face of the woman behind her.

-- Tommy  :)

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2018, 12:21:40 AM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2018, 12:28:31 AM »

Alan,

When you suggest that her skirt is oh-so-improbably "trending sharply upward," I believe you are conflating her skirt with the side of the face of the woman behind her.

-- Tommy  :)

I believe you are right, Mr Graves, and I happily concede the point!  Thumb1:

So------that teeny-tiny sliver of skirt that comes into view contains enough information for you to see the pattern of Ms Calvery's skirt?





Are you being serious?

 

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