Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Author Topic: Bill Shelley on Steps  (Read 4058 times)

Offline Thomas Graves

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2053
Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2018, 07:44:08 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Mr Graves, the ID of Ms Calvery in Betzner & Zapruder looks solid to me, but not the one in Darnell.

My tentative thinking re. Ms Calvery's being the reason for Mr Shelley's distended sense of time
-------------------Mr Joe Molina's testimony gives to understand that Ms Calvery's arrival at the front of the Depository building was significantly later than Messrs. Shelley, Lovelady & Frazier would have us believe, and certainly well after Mr Truly entered the building
-------------------Mr Shelley chose Ms Calvery---a very good friend---to lend credibility to his contrived story of being in the area
-------------------This led to complications as soon as he established that she had not come back to the building for quite some time... hence the absurd 3+ minutes estimate of Mr Truly & Officer Baker's entry into the building

By 'aftermath' images I meant immediate aftermath. Up to the police car footage, Mr Shelley is The Invisible Man!

Alan,

I'd like to point out that the skirt Gloria Calvery is wearing in the Zapruder film has bold, dark, horizontal stripes in it, and that a smidgen of one of those stripes can barely be made out in a blow up of the sliver of the woman's skirt that's visible in Darnell.

That, and the fact that the woman in Darnell is, just like Calvery, wearing a black blouse and a black headscarf, and is in very close proximity to the only woman in Dealy Plaza that day who was wearing a white dress and a white headscarf, tells me that the woman in Darnell actually is Gloria Calvery. 

Additionally, the fact that this woman we're talking about is facing the steps and speaking with a man on the steps jibes with Frazier's statement that after the assassination a crying girl "came by" and told some somebody on the steps that Kennedy had been shot.

-- Tommy  :)
« Last Edit: December 01, 2018, 07:49:20 PM by Thomas Graves »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2018, 07:44:08 PM »

Online Brian Doyle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2825
Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2018, 07:46:30 PM »
No Thomas...Frazier said Calvery was hysterically shouting in a low voice on the way to the steps that the president has been shot...She did that 3 seconds or more before the start of Couch/Darnell...

Offline Alan Ford

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1299
Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2018, 07:49:59 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Alan,

I'd like to point out that the skirt Gloria Calvery is wearing in the Zapruder film has bold, dark, horizontal stripes in it, and that a smidgen of one of those stripes can barely be made out in a blow up of the sliver of the woman's skirt that's visible in Darnell.

Not good enough, sorry!

How do you know this isn't Ms Calvery?


JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2018, 07:49:59 PM »

Online Brian Doyle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2825
Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2018, 08:03:43 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
How do you know this isn't Ms Calvery?

By all the photographic evidence and spoken testimony that has been repeated many many times that you are ignoring Alan... The visual evidence matches Tall Woman's clothing with Calvery at the steps...Dark scarf, top, and green plaid skirt...Also Woman In All White is along side Calvery in both Zapruder and Darnell...Plus, both Lovelady and Frazier spoke of Lovelady & Shelley speaking to Calvery before they left the steps...

No serious researcher could ignore this evidence that has been cited dozens and dozens of times in these threads and pretend he is credibly, honestly looking for the correct evidence...

A competent researcher would know those women you point-out are still at the Knoll when Calvery has to be at the steps according to the known timing...Only an uncredible researcher would run roughshod across the other known evidence and offer that woman as Calvery...Only a non-serious poster would ignore that Calvery is running back in hysterics immediately upon seeing Kennedy's gory head shot...

A competent photo analyst would realize the woman Alan points-out has too dark a skirt to match Calvery's green plaid skirt...That woman isn't tall enough either compared to the other women next to her...

Offline Thomas Graves

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2053
Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2018, 08:08:35 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
No Thomas...Frazier said Calvery was hysterically shouting in a low voice on the way to the steps that the president has been shot...She did that 3 seconds or more before the start of Couch/Darnell...


Brian,

At 34:10 in his Sixth Floor Museum interview, Frazier says that Shelley and Frazier went down towards the triple-underpass because, right before they left, a lady came by, and she was crying, and she said that somebody had shot the president.



-- Tommy  :)
« Last Edit: December 01, 2018, 08:12:00 PM by Thomas Graves »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2018, 08:08:35 PM »

Online Brian Doyle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2825
Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2018, 08:24:48 PM »
I have had trouble locating the testimony but somewhere, whether it was the Garrison Trial or elsewhere, Frazier said Calvery shouted in a low hysterical voice that "The president has been shot" on the way to the steps as she approached...Frazier said I had trouble hearing it so I turned to Sarah and she said "I think she said the president has been shot"...What you are quoting doesn't conflict with this previous statement by Frazier...

You are a tricky presence Thomas because you are smart enough to know that your entry deserves a more honest follow-through...The fact both Frazier and Lovelady confirmed that Lovelady & Shelley spoke to Calvery before they went up the extension proves that the persons you see in Couch/Darnell are Lovelady & Shelley...Which in turn PROVES that the person you are calling Calvery at the steps in Couch/Darnell is the real Calvery...Which in turn proves the timing of Frazier locating Stanton via Calvery forces Prayer Man to be Stanton...

We are saying the same thing here because the start of Couch/Darnell is approximately 3 seconds after Lovelady & Shelley left the steps... 

Offline Thomas Graves

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2053
Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2018, 08:27:50 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Not good enough, sorry!

How do you know this isn't Ms Calvery?




Alan,

You mean the woman to the immediate left of the young lady wearing the red plaid skirt in the photo Clive Largey posted on page 5 of Bob Prudhome's JFK Assassination Debate - Education Forum thread titled, "Did Gloria Calvery Almost Catch Up To Marion Baker?"?

(Too bad this forum's rules prohibit my posting the link here.)

-- Tommy  :)

PS  For reference, that's "Hardhat Man" to the immediate left of your gal, above, and the above-mentioned young lady with the red plaid dress to his left."



« Last Edit: December 01, 2018, 08:34:41 PM by Thomas Graves »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2018, 08:27:50 PM »

Offline Alan Ford

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1299
Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2018, 08:33:45 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Alan,

You mean the woman to the immediate left of the young lady wearing the red plaid skirt in the photo Clive Largey posted on page 5 of Bob Prudhome's JFK Assassination Debate thread titled, "Did Gloria Calvery Almost Catch Up To Marion Baker?"?

I mean the woman clearly marked with a red arrow, Mr Graves.
Why can't she be a candidate for Ms Calvery?

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2018, 08:33:45 PM »

Online Brian Doyle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2825
Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2018, 08:35:09 PM »
There's tricky Thomas again encouraging Alan instead of pointing-out the fact that woman can't be at the Knoll at that time and still be Calvery...Her skirt is too dark to be the light green plaid skirt Calvery wore...And she is too short to be the tall Calvery when compared to those next to her...

Offline Thomas Graves

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2053
Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2018, 08:44:10 PM »
Alan,

If you were to visually compare your photo and the EF photo I just now tried to refer you to (have you found it yet?), you'd see that "your Calvery" wasn't wearing a headscarf, and therefore couldn't have been Calvery (because Calvery is definitely wearing a headscarf in the Z-film and in Betzner 3.

Also, it would appear that Gloria Calvery was taller that your gal.

-- Tommy  :)
« Last Edit: December 01, 2018, 09:12:30 PM by Thomas Graves »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Bill Shelley on Steps
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2018, 08:44:10 PM »

 

Mobile View