Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members

Author Topic: WC Member's Views Confirmed By HSCA  (Read 36486 times)

Online Jerry Organ

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2277
Re: WC Member's Views Confirmed By HSCA
« Reply #168 on: January 09, 2019, 04:33:54 PM »
Advertisement
But at z195, JBC was turned so the plane of his back was aligned generally in the same direction as the right to left bullet path so the bullet would not necessarily have struck his back.  We know it didn't.  But that was not the only part of his body that was on the left side of the middle of his jumpseat.  And there was a wound on his left side.  What is "invalid" about that?

It would be valid if your 3D study was legitimate but it's a total conceit.



You see, the more things in a 3D analysis that actually relates to what is seen in the Zapruder film, the more confidence can be placed in it. I think I'm doing pretty good for someone on a consumer HP Pavilion trying to do something with SketchUp.

The Select Committee, Myers and NOVA (2013) studies weren't perfect (neither is mine, of course). But the best 3D studies just aren't finding that Connally was turned as much towards the car rail as you portray. Now it could be that you alone know more than these graphics experts or can see body positions on film that others cannot.

You won't admit to it, but to make your theory work, you were forced to move Kennedy away from the car rail more than he is ...



... and you stretched out the distance between the two men.


JFK Assassination Forum

Re: WC Member's Views Confirmed By HSCA
« Reply #168 on: January 09, 2019, 04:33:54 PM »


Online Andrew Mason

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1228
    • SPMLaw
Re: WC Member's Views Confirmed By HSCA
« Reply #169 on: January 10, 2019, 03:48:16 AM »
It would be valid if your 3D study was legitimate but it's a total conceit.
So show us yours. I showed you all the dimensions. If you have a problem with the dimensions tell us what they should be:





Quote
You see, the more things in a 3D analysis that actually relates to what is seen in the Zapruder film, the more confidence can be placed in it. I think I'm doing pretty good for someone on a consumer HP Pavilion trying to do something with SketchUp.
You are very good at doing graphics but in order for me to assess your 3D accuracy I would need to see it.  Your 3D picture sure looks like a bullet through JFK's neck to JBC's right armpit goes left to right. Show me that I am wrong

Quote
The Select Committee, Myers and NOVA (2013) studies weren't perfect (neither is mine, of course). But the best 3D studies just aren't finding that Connally was turned as much towards the car rail as you portray. Now it could be that you alone know more than these graphics experts or can see body positions on film that others cannot.
So tell us how much he is turned in your graphic and why.  I'll go with your graphic.

Quote
You won't admit to it, but to make your theory work, you were forced to move Kennedy away from the car rail more than he is ...
I was going by the sightlines from Zapruder that puts JFK between the left handhold and the spare tire enclosure in z193. One can also see the top right corner of the rear seat back behind JFK's right shoulder, so he is not as far right as possible.  But I stand to be corrected if you can show otherwise.

Quote
... and you stretched out the distance between the two men.

The distance from JFK's throat exit to the jumpseat back is 19 inches if I recall correctly.  I will check it. What do you say it is? You should be able to do that from your 3D model. You just draw a couple of arrows between different points at different angles and say there is a problem. Show us the numbers and how you arrive at them.

Offline Tim Nickerson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1824
Re: WC Member's Views Confirmed By HSCA
« Reply #170 on: January 10, 2019, 04:31:27 AM »

I don't know who rotates their torso other than from their spine.


Everyone rotates their torso around their longitudinal axis.

Quote
If the spine rotates around some notional body axis, then the spine would have to physically move laterally every time we turned,

That is correct. Connally's spine moved laterally to the left when he rotated to the right. Not much, but move it did.

Quote
which means that the hips would have to move.

Not necessarily. But I'm not arguing that Connally never moved his hips either.

Quote
What you need to do is show us a video of someone turning right 30 degrees from forward and show us how their right shoulder moves left 3 inches. 

Nope.

Quote
I am just saying that:

1. suppose he was closer to 10.2 cm inboard, say 13 cm (5.1 inches). and say
2. the first shot struck JFK in the neck at z195 (which, unlike the phantom missed shot at z155 or so which no one observed and which conflicts with at least 3 large bodies of mutually consistent evidence, fits the evidence) when the angle from the SN to the car direction was about 13 or 14 degrees.

Then the bullet through JFK's neck crossed the plane of JBC's jumpseat an additional 14-15 cm further left.  If JBC's spine was 13 cm left of JFK's then the bullet would have passed to the left of JBC's spine by 1-2 cm.   But at z195, JBC was turned so the plane of his back was aligned generally in the same direction as the right to left bullet path so the bullet would not necessarily have struck his back.  We know it didn't.  But that was not the only part of his body that was on the left side of the middle of his jumpseat.  And there was a wound on his left side.  What is "invalid" about that?

The SBT tries to drive a square peg into a round hole.  No one said it had occurred and many said it didn't.  There is another explanation that does not conflict with the evidence but is still consistent with the overwhelming evidence that all shots were fired using Oswald's MC.

The SBT does not try to drive a square peg into a round hole, but I know something that does.






JFK Assassination Forum

Re: WC Member's Views Confirmed By HSCA
« Reply #170 on: January 10, 2019, 04:31:27 AM »


Online Jerry Organ

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2277
Re: WC Member's Views Confirmed By HSCA
« Reply #171 on: January 10, 2019, 05:23:15 AM »

Your 3D picture sure looks like a bullet through JFK's neck to JBC's right armpit goes left to right.
Not this again? You think I'm would use a left-to-right trajectory?



Quote
So tell us how much he is turned in your graphic and why.  I'll go with your graphic.

Connally is turned so as to reflect his appearance in the Zapruder film.

Quote
I was going by the sightlines from Zapruder that puts JFK between the left handhold and the spare tire enclosure in z193. One can also see the top right corner of the rear seat back behind JFK's right shoulder, so he is not as far right as possible.  But I stand to be corrected if you can show otherwise.



I think that's shadow fall onto the seat top, not a portion of the seat-back between Kennedy and the car's interior. So that doesn't justify moving Kennedy inboard more than he was.

Quote
The distance from JFK's throat exit to the jumpseat back is 19 inches if I recall correctly.  I will check it. What do you say it is? You should be able to do that from your 3D model. You just draw a couple of arrows between different points at different angles and say there is a problem. Show us the numbers and how you arrive at them.

Whatever you're using, it's not helping your 3D work to match what's seen in the film.

Online Andrew Mason

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1228
    • SPMLaw
Re: WC Member's Views Confirmed By HSCA
« Reply #172 on: January 10, 2019, 12:57:11 PM »
Not this again? You think I'm would use a left-to-right trajectory?

I can't tell. It sure looks like JBC's right armpit would be right of JFK's midline in your drawing.
Quote
Connally is turned so as to reflect his appearance in the Zapruder film.

I agree if you are using z224 positions. So show how that puts his right armpit left of JFK's midline.  The angle of a shot from the SN was about 9 degrees right to left at z224.  I was showing the position at z197.

Quote
I think that's shadow fall onto the seat top, not a portion of the seat-back between Kennedy and the car's interior. So that doesn't justify moving Kennedy inboard more than he was.
So how far from the inside of the car was his midline? I can't measure that on your drawing.

Quote
Whatever you're using, it's not helping your 3D work to match what's seen in the film.
I'm still waiting for your numbers or measureable views. Show us the overhead view with the angle to the SN through JFK and JBC.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2019, 04:01:33 AM by Andrew Mason »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: WC Member's Views Confirmed By HSCA
« Reply #172 on: January 10, 2019, 12:57:11 PM »


Offline Rob Caprio

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1094
Re: WC Member's Views Confirmed By HSCA
« Reply #173 on: January 10, 2019, 09:15:49 PM »
Brother Rob, we both know there is no convincing you. The bullet exited JFK's throat at 2000fps. Where do you think it went? JBC was directly in front of JFK.

A second shooter fired from where? The trajectories of the wounds tell you somewhere in this theory is an assassin firing two shots with three shells on the floor.

Cite the evidence that shows the bullet "exited JFK's throat at 2000fps". Go ahead. I'll wait.

It is not my job to figure out from where. Only to point out that it happened based on the evidence.

Offline Tim Nickerson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1824
Re: WC Member's Views Confirmed By HSCA
« Reply #174 on: January 10, 2019, 09:29:44 PM »
Brother Rob, we both know there is no convincing you. The bullet exited JFK's throat at 2000fps. Where do you think it went? JBC was directly in front of JFK.


2000 f/s is at near muzzle velocity (2100 f/s). That's too fast. The bullet exited JFK's throat at about 1700 f/s. It yawed upon exiting and then struck Connally at that velocity relatively sideon. It struck his rib at about 1400 f/s.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: WC Member's Views Confirmed By HSCA
« Reply #174 on: January 10, 2019, 09:29:44 PM »


Offline Rob Caprio

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1094
Re: WC Member's Views Confirmed By HSCA
« Reply #175 on: January 10, 2019, 09:35:01 PM »
2000 f/s is at near muzzle velocity (2100 f/s). That's too fast. The bullet exited JFK's throat at about 1700 f/s. It yawed upon exiting and then struck Connally at that velocity relatively sideon. It struck his rib at about 1400 f/s.

Could you please cite your source for it exiting at "about 1700 f/s"?