WC Member's Views Confirmed By HSCA

[Tim Nickerson]

According to the HSCA it exited .5 cm left of JFK's midline.

Did they now? I'd like to see that. Because they have it entering JFK at 2 inches to the right of his midline, traveling right to left at 10 degrees.

Your trajectory only works if JBC's right armpit was left (by about 4-6 inches depending on when you think the neck shot occurred) of JFK's midline because the bullet was trajectory was right to left.  That means his midline had to have been at least 11" left of JFK's midline.  All I am saying is that if JBC was not that far left of JBC then he must have been hit at some other point on his body, which means it was necessarily on his left side.

So, what part of his body on his left side was hit by a bullet? Simple question.

My trajectory works using the numbers given by the ITEK photo and film analysis together with Connally's right rotation of about 30 degrees. Surely, you haven't forgotten that?

[Andrew Mason]

Did they now? I'd like to see that. Because they have it entering JFK at 2 inches to the right of his midline, traveling right to left at 10 degrees.

The HSCA (at 6 HSCA 43) found it was up to .5 cm to the left of the midline . The HSCA said that JFK could have been turned by 5 degrees at the time he was hit.

My trajectory works using the numbers given by the ITEK photo and film analysis together with Connally's right rotation of about 30 degrees. Surely, you haven't forgotten that?

To be fair, ITEK said that JBC's midline was between 10.2 and 20.3 cm left of JFK based on an analysis of all the film frames and photos.  That is where his midline was, so that takes into account everything that can be measured, including any movement of the midline by turning (which is entirely your notion because when I turn my shoulders, my spine does not move sideways).  Neither puts JBC's right armpit anywhere close to 4 inches left of JFK's midline. If we use the maximum of 20.3 cm (8 inches) and had the spine magically (ie. not seen by ITEK) moved farther to the left by 3-4 inches due to the 30 degree right turn (I don't know why the spine would move at all) you might barely make it for the SBT to work.  On the other hand, JBC's midline could have been 10.2 cm (4 inches left of JFK) and if the shot was at z195, the trajectory angle was 13-14 degrees to the car direction which means that after exiting JFK it moved farther left by 5.5 inches (24tan13) to 6 (24tan14) inches.   That would mean the bullet path was to the left side of JBC's spine.  Now, if his torso was turned so that the plane of the back was somewhat aligned with the bullet path, as we see JBC at z195, it could miss the spine and torso on the left by a couple of inches.  The question then is: what could it have hit?

[Tim Nickerson]

The HSCA (at 6 HSCA 43) found it was up to .5 cm to the left of the midline . The HSCA said that JFK could have been turned by 5 degrees at the time he was hit.

"on the center plane or as much as 0.5 centimeters to its left."

Whatever.

To be fair, ITEK said that JBC's midline was between 10.2 and 20.3 cm left of JFK based on an analysis of all the film frames and photos.  That is where his midline was, so that takes into account everything that can be measured, including any movement of the midline by turning (which is entirely your notion because when I turn my shoulders, my spine does not move sideways).  Neither puts JBC's right armpit anywhere close to 4 inches left of JFK's midline. If we use the maximum of 20.3 cm (8 inches) and had the spine magically (ie. not seen by ITEK) moved farther to the left by 3-4 inches due to the 30 degree right turn (I don't know why the spine would move at all) you might barely make it for the SBT to work.  On the other hand, JBC's midline could have been 10.2 cm (4 inches left of JFK) and if the shot was at z195, the trajectory angle was 13-14 degrees to the car direction which means that after exiting JFK it moved farther left by 5.5 inches (24tan13) to 6 (24tan14) inches.   That would mean the bullet path was to the left side of JBC's spine.  Now, if his torso was turned so that the plane of the back was somewhat aligned with the bullet path, as we see JBC at z195, it could miss the spine and torso on the left by a couple of inches.  The question then is: what could it have hit?

My spine moves laterally when I rotate my upper torso. It seems that you have a rather odd physique. But I'm not focused on how much the spine moves laterally. By midline, I'm referring to his longitudinal axis. In rotating to his right, Connally rotates about that longitudinal axis. The axis does not move laterally but the shoulder does. The point of entry on Connally's back moves more than 3 inches to the left with a 30 degree right rotation.

[Andrew Mason]

My spine moves laterally when I rotate my upper torso. It seems that you have a rather odd physique. But I'm not focused on how much the spine moves laterally. By midline, I'm referring to his longitudinal axis. In rotating to his right, Connally rotates about that longitudinal axis. The axis does not move laterally but the shoulder does. The point of entry on Connally's back moves more than 3 inches to the left with a 30 degree right rotation.

In case you haven't noticed, your spine, being made up of separate articulated vertebrae, allows parts of the body connected to the spine to turn independently.  God designed us that way so we could play baseball and golf.  So we can turn our shoulders one way and our head the other. We can keep the hips facing forward on a downswing while the shoulders rotate.  The upper back/shoulders can turn alot, and below the shoulders to the lower back to the hips gradually less.    The spine is the centre of all thoracic and cervical rotations.  This is especially easy to see with the rotation of one's head: the head rotates by rotation of the cervical vertebrae.

Let's say the entrance wound on JBC's back was 7 inches from his spine. When he turns his shoulders 30 degrees, the plane of his back turns 30 degrees. The entrance wound projected to its original position is now cos(30) from the spine or .867 x 7 =  6 inches from the spine.  So it has moved 1 inch. left from where it was.

But you did not deal with my point, which is that the trajectory at z195 using JBC inboard of JFK by 10.2 cm or even 14-15 cm would allow the bullet exiting JFK's neck to go to the left side of JBC. Where was he wounded on his left side?

[Jack Nessan]

Not exactly an answer to a simple question: the trajectory shows that the bullet exiting from JFK's midline goes to the left side of JBC's midline, so where on JBC left of his midline was he struck by a bullet?

It was answered, this is a toothless clawless dog and rainbow colored pony show with two seperate shots that both strike JBC but only one bullet is ever found. Apparently, shot one  goes through JFK and exits his throat at 2000fps passes by a contorted JBC on his left side looses all of its energy between the two men and only penetrates the skin on his leg. Requires the belief that JBC was contorted into a position he was not.

The second shot requires belief in SA Hickey altering his statement from having seen the bullet impact JFK's head and make "his hair fly forward" to the bullet passing by JFK's shoulder and making the hair on his head 6+ inches away to somehow "wave". Something Hickey could have not seen from his location.

Bill Newman, Bobbi Hargis, Nelly and Jackie the only witnesses who reference JBC all stated this never happened. JBC himself gave a statement as to when he felt he was wounded.

The most obvious question is where is the other bullet and explain the leg wound with no bone damage. How about just plain come to reality.

[Tim Nickerson]

In case you haven't noticed, your spine, being made up of separate articulated vertebrae, allows parts of the body connected to the spine to turn independently.  God designed us that way so we could play baseball and golf.  So we can turn our shoulders one way and our head the other. We can keep the hips facing forward on a downswing while the shoulders rotate.  The upper back/shoulders can turn alot, and below the shoulders to the lower back to the hips gradually less.    The spine is the centre of all thoracic and cervical rotations.  This is especially easy to see with the rotation of one's head: the head rotates by rotation of the cervical vertebrae.

You are looking at it wrong. It's an axial rotation that you need to consider. That being around the central axis of the body. Connally's center axis is where his sagittal and coronal planes meet. The spine facilitates the rotation, along with the hips, but the rotation itself is around that longitudinal axis.

Let's say the entrance wound on JBC's back was 7 inches from his spine. When he turns his shoulders 30 degrees, the plane of his back turns 30 degrees. The entrance wound projected to its original position is now cos(30) from the spine or .867 x 7 =  6 inches from the spine.  So it has moved 1 inch. left from where it was.

Nope. When he rotates so that his upper torso is 30 degrees right of center, he moves the entry point on his back more than 3 inches to the left. Here's what it looks like with the entry wound at 7.5 inches to the right of the midline of his back:

Assuming the thickness of Connally's torso to be 9 inches from anterior to posterior. Using that number we get a distance of 4.5 inches from the center axis of his upper torso measured straight to the midline of his back. If the wound is 7.5 inches to the right of the midline of the back then the distance from his center axis to that point is about 8.75 inches.

4.5^2 + 7.5^2 = C^2

20.25 + 56.25 = C^2

v76.5 = 8.75 inches



That's from using the measuring tool of GIMP. It's from a couple of years ago. I don't know why I used yellow. The amount of movement to the left is 3.25 inches.

But you did not deal with my point, which is that the trajectory at z195 using JBC inboard of JFK by 10.2 cm or even 14-15 cm would allow the bullet exiting JFK's neck to go to the left side of JBC. Where was he wounded on his left side?

You don't have a point. The point that you are attempting to make is invalid.

[Jerry Organ]

According to the HSCA it exited .5 cm left of JFK's midline. 

Your trajectory only works if JBC's right armpit was left (by about 4-6 inches depending on when you think the neck shot occurred) of JFK's midline because the bullet was trajectory was right to left.  That means his midline had to have been at least 11" left of JFK's midline.  All I am saying is that if JBC was not that far left of JBC then he must have been hit at some other point on his body, which means it was necessarily on his left side.

Seems it's very close to meeting those lateral-distance requirements in the Z190s.



Assuming Kennedy's midline plane didn't change significantly, Connally rotating his body slightly more to the front by Z223 could mean the midline on the upper back went a bit further from the midline plane (to get to 11"). And then we're dealing with a different trajectory and slope from the SN window.

[Andrew Mason]

You are looking at it wrong. It's an axial rotation that you need to consider. That being around the central axis of the body. Connally's center axis is where his sagittal and coronal planes meet. The spine facilitates the rotation, along with the hips, but the rotation itself is around that longitudinal axis.

Nope. When he rotates so that his upper torso is 30 degrees right of center, he moves the entry point on his back more than 3 inches to the left. Here's what it looks like with the entry wound at 7.5 inches to the right of the midline of his back:

Assuming the thickness of Connally's torso to be 9 inches from anterior to posterior. Using that number we get a distance of 4.5 inches from the center axis of his upper torso measured straight to the midline of his back. If the wound is 7.5 inches to the right of the midline of the back then the distance from his center axis to that point is about 8.75 inches.

I don't know who rotates their torso other than from their spine.  If the spine rotates around some notional body axis, then the spine would have to physically move laterally every time we turned, which means that the hips would have to move. I can easily turn my torso sitting down without moving my hips at all. Perhaps this golf video may help you see how the spine turns. It is called: THE GOLF SWING MADE SIMPLE - TURN AROUND YOUR SPINE: 

What you need to do is show us a video of someone turning right 30 degrees from forward and show us how their right shoulder moves left 3 inches. 

You don't have a point. The point that you are attempting to make is invalid.

It is at least as valid as your point.  You are cherry-picking the ITEK data and saying that it means JBC was 20.3 cm inboard of JFK.  ITEK really said that they could not tell for sure but his midline was somewhere between 10.2 and 20.3 cm inboard.

I am just saying that:

1. suppose he was closer to 10.2 cm inboard, say 13 cm (5.1 inches). and say
2. the first shot struck JFK in the neck at z195 (which, unlike the phantom missed shot at z155 or so which no one observed and which conflicts with at least 3 large bodies of mutually consistent evidence, fits the evidence) when the angle from the SN to the car direction was about 13 or 14 degrees.

Then the bullet through JFK's neck crossed the plane of JBC's jumpseat an additional 14-15 cm further left.  If JBC's spine was 13 cm left of JFK's then the bullet would have passed to the left of JBC's spine by 1-2 cm.   But at z195, JBC was turned so the plane of his back was aligned generally in the same direction as the right to left bullet path so the bullet would not necessarily have struck his back.  We know it didn't.  But that was not the only part of his body that was on the left side of the middle of his jumpseat.  And there was a wound on his left side.  What is "invalid" about that?

The SBT tries to drive a square peg into a round hole.  No one said it had occurred and many said it didn't.  There is another explanation that does not conflict with the evidence but is still consistent with the overwhelming evidence that all shots were fired using Oswald's MC.