Author Topic: Why Hoover lied about copper residue on the curb gouge  (Read 5950 times)

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Online Bob Prudhomme

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Re: Why Hoover lied about copper residue on the curb gouge
« Reply #35 on: March 19, 2017, 05:59:08 PM »
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Talk about playing dumb. But it's not mere play for you, is it Squirrelly?

Hint: You always close your sighting eye as you fire? Or are you so stupid you can't figure out how to stabilize a rifle?

More important, what's an idiot like you doing around guns and live ammunition?

Let me guess, you are able to watch where your bullet hits through the scope?
"Mr. HILL. The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car." WC testimony of SA Clint Hill

Online Jerry Organ

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Re: Why Hoover lied about copper residue on the curb gouge
« Reply #36 on: March 19, 2017, 06:44:21 PM »
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Let me guess, you are able to watch where your bullet hits through the scope?

Should be a reasonable spray off the curb-stone or manhole-cover. Even pavement.

     

     

    "Shooting from the bench, fire a shot and watch for the hit.
     If you're really on your shooting technique, you will see
     the impact through the rifle scope."
          -- "Dead On: The Long-Range Marksman's Guide To Extreme Accuracy"
               by Warren Gabrilska and Tony M. Noblitt.

Not sure why you're the only one with that problem. Maybe you're just throwing up roadblocks, as usual.

Online Bob Prudhomme

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Re: Why Hoover lied about copper residue on the curb gouge
« Reply #37 on: March 19, 2017, 09:27:11 PM »
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Should be a reasonable spray off the curb-stone or manhole-cover. Even pavement.

     

     

    "Shooting from the bench, fire a shot and watch for the hit.
     If you're really on your shooting technique, you will see
     the impact through the rifle scope."
          -- "Dead On: The Long-Range Marksman's Guide To Extreme Accuracy"
               by Warren Gabrilska and Tony M. Noblitt.

Not sure why you're the only one with that problem. Maybe you're just throwing up roadblocks, as usual.

Well, Organ, you just proved you are full of crap, as well as the author of this guide.

Know what happens when you pull the trigger of a rifle? The firing pin impacts the primer and the primer sets the gunpowder to combusting. Expanding rapidly, the gunpowder begins to propel the bullet down the barrel.

Sir Isaac Newton's Third Law of Motion states "For every action there is an equal and opposite re-action."

This means that for every force there is a reaction force that is equal in size, but opposite in direction. That is to say that whenever an object pushes another object it gets pushed back in the opposite direction equally hard. When the expanding gases in the rifle cartridge begin pushing the bullet down the barrel, the rifle reacts in the opposite direction, and tries to move rearward. We refer to this as the "recoil" of the rifle and depending on the volume of gunpowder, the weight of the bullet and the weight of the rifle, the recoil can be anything from quite mild to severe.

Regardless of the severity of the recoil, there is just enough movement of the rifle to cause the target to be lost in the field of iew of the rifle scope. This would have been doubly true for the 4x18 toy scope on Oswald's alleged rifle. With its 18 mm objective lens, it would have had an extremely tiny field of view, and just the breathing of the shooter would have been enough to throw it off of its target. this is hardly surprising, as the 4x18 scope was never intended to be mounted on a high powered rifle such as the 6.5mm Carcano. This scope was made for pellet airguns or, at most, a youth's .22 rimfire rifle, and it was not made for ranges much beyond 25 yards.

If you had ever shot a rifle with a scope much (or at all) you would understand how difficult it is to keep a rifle on target. Looking through the scope at a target, you would see that each time you breathe in and out, it causes the end of the barrel to go up and down.

No one sees their bullets impact when shooting with a scope, although it is sometimes possible to do with open sights. Believe me, I have tried many times to do this when hunting and it's always a scramble to re-acquire the target. The only way to see where your bullet has hit on a paper target is to re-acquire the target through your scope, or to have a friend watching your target with a spotting scope. He will be able to see your bullets hit paper. However, even the act of squeezing the trigger is enough to move your scope a fraction of an inch and take it off the target.

Oswald could not have sighted his scope in by shooting at a curb stone, simply because he could not know where his bullet hit. Anyone who says different is full of crap, just like you and Fast Eddy.
"Mr. HILL. The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car." WC testimony of SA Clint Hill

Online Bill Chapman

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Re: Why Hoover lied about copper residue on the curb gouge
« Reply #38 on: March 19, 2017, 10:03:10 PM »
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Well, Organ, you just proved you are full of crap, as well as the author of this guide.

Know what happens when you pull the trigger of a rifle? The firing pin impacts the primer and the primer sets the gunpowder to combusting. Expanding rapidly, the gunpowder begins to propel the bullet down the barrel.

Sir Isaac Newton's Third Law of Motion states "For every action there is an equal and opposite re-action."

This means that for every force there is a reaction force that is equal in size, but opposite in direction. That is to say that whenever an object pushes another object it gets pushed back in the opposite direction equally hard. When the expanding gases in the rifle cartridge begin pushing the bullet down the barrel, the rifle reacts in the opposite direction, and tries to move rearward. We refer to this as the "recoil" of the rifle and depending on the volume of gunpowder, the weight of the bullet and the weight of the rifle, the recoil can be anything from quite mild to severe.

Regardless of the severity of the recoil, there is just enough movement of the rifle to cause the target to be lost in the field of iew of the rifle scope. This would have been doubly true for the 4x18 toy scope on Oswald's alleged rifle. With its 18 mm objective lens, it would have had an extremely tiny field of view, and just the breathing of the shooter would have been enough to throw it off of its target. this is hardly surprising, as the 4x18 scope was never intended to be mounted on a high powered rifle such as the 6.5mm Carcano. This scope was made for pellet airguns or, at most, a youth's .22 rimfire rifle, and it was not made for ranges much beyond 25 yards.

If you had ever shot a rifle with a scope much (or at all) you would understand how difficult it is to keep a rifle on target. Looking through the scope at a target, you would see that each time you breathe in and out, it causes the end of the barrel to go up and down.

No one sees their bullets impact when shooting with a scope, although it is sometimes possible to do with open sights. Believe me, I have tried many times to do this when hunting and it's always a scramble to re-acquire the target. The only way to see where your bullet has hit on a paper target is to re-acquire the target through your scope, or to have a friend watching your target with a spotting scope. He will be able to see your bullets hit paper. However, even the act of squeezing the trigger is enough to move your scope a fraction of an inch and take it off the target.

Oswald could not have sighted his scope in by shooting at a curb stone, simply because he could not know where his bullet hit. Anyone who says different is full of crap, just like you and Fast Eddy.

Let you remind you that JFK's head moved only 2-2.5" forward from the missile
And that the recoil of the Carcano would be cushioned by the shoulder to an extent
And that Oswald could have easily used the iron sights

Guns in America:

The FBI reported to the Warren Commission that they actually could not zero the scope on Oswald’s gun without putting some kind of shims in it, but as you can see in the pictures, I don’t see where such shims would even go. Our scope is clearly a replica and not the same model as the Oswald scope, but it is the same power and the mount is identical. It was difficult to zero because of the very old and rudimentary design, but zero it we did. The recoil is very manageable on the Carcano, so there would be little worry of it affecting even a cheap scope.  

One thing I have never seen explained online is that the scope on the Oswald rifle is a side mount, like an M1 Garand sniper modesl. You can still use the open sights just as you would without a scope, and you don’t have to look under the mounts like you would with a modern see-thru mount. The open sights are zeroed for 200 yards and shoot about 8″ high at 50 yards. There are published theories that Oswald used the open sights on the gun, because the thinking is he could not zero the optics anyway, and that using the awkward side optic would take too long between shots to aim.

Our open sights are not adjustable, but they were pretty close to point-of-aim horizontally, but would require about an 8″ hold under. Oswald’s rifle had the same non-adjustable sights as this test gun, and it is very possible that at that distance, only 58 yards or so, he used the iron sights.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2017, 05:45:08 AM
by Bill Chapman
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Online Jerry Organ

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Re: Why Hoover lied about copper residue on the curb gouge
« Reply #39 on: March 19, 2017, 10:49:56 PM »
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Well, Organ, you just proved you are full of crap, as well as the author of this guide.

Know what happens when you pull the trigger of a rifle? The firing pin impacts the primer and the primer sets the gunpowder to combusting. Expanding rapidly, the gunpowder begins to propel the bullet down the barrel.

Sir Isaac Newton's Third Law of Motion states "For every action there is an equal and opposite re-action."

This means that for every force there is a reaction force that is equal in size, but opposite in direction. That is to say that whenever an object pushes another object it gets pushed back in the opposite direction equally hard. When the expanding gases in the rifle cartridge begin pushing the bullet down the barrel, the rifle reacts in the opposite direction, and tries to move rearward. We refer to this as the "recoil" of the rifle and depending on the volume of gunpowder, the weight of the bullet and the weight of the rifle, the recoil can be anything from quite mild to severe.

Regardless of the severity of the recoil, there is just enough movement of the rifle to cause the target to be lost in the field of iew of the rifle scope. This would have been doubly true for the 4x18 toy scope on Oswald's alleged rifle. With its 18 mm objective lens, it would have had an extremely tiny field of view, and just the breathing of the shooter would have been enough to throw it off of its target. this is hardly surprising, as the 4x18 scope was never intended to be mounted on a high powered rifle such as the 6.5mm Carcano. This scope was made for pellet airguns or, at most, a youth's .22 rimfire rifle, and it was not made for ranges much beyond 25 yards.

If you had ever shot a rifle with a scope much (or at all) you would understand how difficult it is to keep a rifle on target. Looking through the scope at a target, you would see that each time you breathe in and out, it causes the end of the barrel to go up and down.

No one sees their bullets impact when shooting with a scope, although it is sometimes possible to do with open sights. Believe me, I have tried many times to do this when hunting and it's always a scramble to re-acquire the target. The only way to see where your bullet has hit on a paper target is to re-acquire the target through your scope, or to have a friend watching your target with a spotting scope. He will be able to see your bullets hit paper. However, even the act of squeezing the trigger is enough to move your scope a fraction of an inch and take it off the target.

Oswald could not have sighted his scope in by shooting at a curb stone, simply because he could not know where his bullet hit. Anyone who says different is full of crap, just like you and Fast Eddy.

Yep. Bob knows more than all the gun experts and even all the forensic pathologists.

With this post, it seems you're comparing apples and oranges. There are problems with increasing the magnification, as well, such as a reduced field of vision compared to the 4X. And a heavier scope could shift the center of balance more than a lighter-weight scope.

4X is good for general purposes and it forces the shooter to aim more steady, if anything. The target area is smaller but there's more peripheral (which is a good thing for ad-hoc one-shot sighting and seeing the impact). If you saw "JFK Cold Case" they showed the Carcano bullet was unusually stable as it left the barrel. This centralized some of the recoil to go almost straight back.



From the "CBS Reports". Here the shooter has his thumb a bit over the top of the rifle because he doesn't care about blocking the iron sights as he's using the scope, which sees over where he has his thumb.

Of course, there are videos that show a more severe recoil, but the shooter may not be pinning down the rifle fully or he may be more concerned with recycling speed than accuracy.



Or he may be like Bob. Thinks he knows everything.

Online Bob Prudhomme

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Re: Why Hoover lied about copper residue on the curb gouge
« Reply #40 on: March 20, 2017, 12:43:23 AM »
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Yep. Bob knows more than all the gun experts and even all the forensic pathologists.

With this post, it seems you're comparing apples and oranges. There are problems with increasing the magnification, as well, such as a reduced field of vision compared to the 4X. And a heavier scope could shift the center of balance more than a lighter-weight scope.

4X is good for general purposes and it forces the shooter to aim more steady, if anything. The target area is smaller but there's more peripheral (which is a good thing for ad-hoc one-shot sighting and seeing the impact). If you saw "JFK Cold Case" they showed the Carcano bullet was unusually stable as it left the barrel. This centralized some of the recoil to go almost straight back.



From the "CBS Reports". Here the shooter has his thumb a bit over the top of the rifle because he doesn't care about blocking the iron sights as he's using the scope, which sees over where he has his thumb.

Of course, there are videos that show a more severe recoil, but the shooter may not be pinning down the rifle fully or he may be more concerned with recycling speed than accuracy.



Or he may be like Bob. Thinks he knows everything.

Have you ever shot a rifle with a telescopic sight, Organ? Or, for that matter, have you ever shot a rifle?
"Mr. HILL. The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car." WC testimony of SA Clint Hill

Online Jerry Organ

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Re: Why Hoover lied about copper residue on the curb gouge
« Reply #41 on: March 20, 2017, 12:52:50 AM »
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Have you ever shot a rifle with a telescopic sight, Organ? Or, for that matter, have you ever shot a rifle?

LOL! Not in a quite a few years, and never a Carcano. And your shooting experience must be limited if you can't grasp what expert shooters are telling you.

Now have you been a witness in Dealey Plaza? Have you trained to be a forensic pathologist and conducted hundred of autopsies? None of that stops you from commenting on such matters.