Author Topic: Why Hoover lied about copper residue on the curb gouge  (Read 5959 times)

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Offline Edward Bauer

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Why Hoover lied about copper residue on the curb gouge
« on: March 17, 2017, 01:14:36 AM »

This is the most complex aspect of solving the mystery of the JFK assassination.  Briefly, the Hoover FBI needed to squash belief in a conspiracy and at the same time protect the Secret Service’s non-reaction to what they knew was a very early first shot.  They knew the bullet gouge was caused by Oswald zeroing his scope with that early first shot but to admit it would irreparably tarnish the reputation of the Secret Service.  Yet to declare that the gouge was from another type of bullet would be to admit a conspiracy.  Both could lead to a spike in assassination attempts and a de-stabilization of the government.
What would you do?
 
The FBI at first denied any curb gouge or even a mark existed.  When confronted with photos in the media, Hoover insisted that it was only a “smear” and not caused by a bullet.  Yet Dallas Sherriff’s Deputies Walthers and Sweatt as well as eyewitness James Tague stated that it was “a bullet mark, and freshly made.”  Other than that single un-sworn letter from Hoover to Rankin, there is no hard evidence that a spectrographic analysis was ever conducted.

Hoover did what he honestly believed was best for the country.  You might have done the same thing.  I would have.

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Offline Tony Fratini

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Re: Why Hoover lied about copper residue on the curb gouge
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2017, 05:37:18 AM »
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This is the most complex aspect of solving the mystery of the JFK assassination.  Briefly, the Hoover FBI needed to squash belief in a conspiracy and at the same time protect the Secret Service’s non-reaction to what they knew was a very early first shot.  They knew the bullet gouge was caused by Oswald zeroing his scope with that early first shot but to admit it would irreparably tarnish the reputation of the Secret Service.  Yet to declare that the gouge was from another type of bullet would be to admit a conspiracy.  Both could lead to a spike in assassination attempts and a de-stabilization of the government.
What would you do?
 
The FBI at first denied any curb gouge or even a mark existed.  When confronted with photos in the media, Hoover insisted that it was only a “smear” and not caused by a bullet.  Yet Dallas Sherriff’s Deputies Walthers and Sweatt as well as eyewitness James Tague stated that it was “a bullet mark, and freshly made.”  Other than that single un-sworn letter from Hoover to Rankin, there is no hard evidence that a spectrographic analysis was ever conducted.

Hoover did what he honestly believed was best for the country.  You might have done the same thing.  I would have.

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I would suggest Howard that Hoover did what was best for himself and to protect the integrity of his FBI.


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Why Hoover lied about copper residue on the curb gouge
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2017, 07:03:41 PM »
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I would suggest Howard that Hoover did what was best for himself and to protect the integrity of his FBI.



 :thumbsup2:

Hoover did what was best for himself and to protect the integrity of his FBI.

Hoover had so much power that he thought of himself as God......He was a self righteous bigot and a racist of the first order.

He thought them "Damned snot nosed Kennedy brats" were ruining his country ....He supported the illegal attacks on Cuba as a favorite cause, and when JFK ordered all federal law enforcement agencies to put a binder on the illegal activities he decided to take action and put a binder on the Kennedy's.....


Offline Michael Capasse

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Re: Why Hoover lied about copper residue on the curb gouge
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2017, 08:17:28 PM »
Testimony of J.W. Foster
Dallas Police Department April 9, 1964


Mr. FOSTER - I moved down the roadway there, down to see if I could find where any of the shots hit.
Mr. BALL - Find anything?
Mr. FOSTER - Yes, sir. Found where one shot had hit the turf there at the location.
Mr. BALL - Hit the turf?
Mr. FOSTER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Did you see any marks on the street in anyplace?
Mr. FOSTER - No, a manhole cover. It was hit. they caught the manhole cover right on the corner and -
Mr. BALL - You saw a mark on the manhole cover did you?
Mr. FOSTER - Yes sir.

Mr. BALL - Went into the turf?
Mr. FOSTER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Did you recover any bullet?
Mr. FOSTER - No, sir. It ricocheted on out.
Mr. BALL - Did you have the crime lab make a picture of that spot?
Mr. FOSTER - I called them to the location.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 11:05:29 PM
by Michael Capasse
»

Offline Michael Capasse

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Re: Why Hoover lied about copper residue on the curb gouge
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2017, 08:18:53 PM »
James Tague was a big problem to the WC.
How easy it would have been to have one non fatal shot each PREZ & GOV and then head shot as the third
Tague destroys that and when his story is picked up by the AP in early summer 1964 the WC cannot ignore him

Tague was called July 23 1964..(WC on a scheduled timeline to have been finished)
..and the below FBI memo (portion of pg. 3 unsigned) dated July 17th 1964
It references the photographers (Dillard & Underwood) that took the photos of the MH cover
But wait....The hit to the MH cover and turf has now turned into a hit to the curb and the "nick" cannot be found

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It could be the weather....
"...it should be noted that, since the mark was observed on November 23, 1963 there had been numerous rains which could have possibly washed away such a mark and also that the area is cleaned by a street cleaning machine about once a week which would also wash away such mark..."

But on August 05 1964 Shaneyfelt was able to find a mark [yeah..."Shadyguy"]
....so the initial mark on the MH cover & turf can now become the curb.....




Shaneyfelt comes up with a series of photos that have nothing to do with the original Dillard & Underwood subject
..and the record is left with the mark on the curb that had been the ricochet that hit Tague

Once again Shaneyfelt is called back as late as Sept 1st to clarify  

Mr. Shaneyfelt.
    Yes.
    Using photographs made by Mr. Underwood and Mr. Dillard in November 1963, either the 22d or 23d, of this mark on the curb, I went to Dallas and was successful in locating a mark. Shaneyfelt Exhibit No. 29 contains the photographs used to locate the mark on the curbing on the south side of Main Street at the assassination site.
Photograph No. 1 of this exhibit is the photograph of the mark made by Mr. Underwood, the red arrow indicating the mark on the curb.
Photograph No. 2 is the photograph made by Mr. Dillard of the mark on the curb, and the red arrow again designates the mark.
Photograph No. 3 of Shaneyfelt Exhibit No. 29 is a photograph that was made by Mr. Underwood by placing his camera on the mark and pointing it toward the Texas School Book Depository Building, and he stated he did this so that the resulting photograph could be used to relocate this mark on the curb should it ever be necessary.

Mr. Redlich.
    I gather that without that photograph taken by Mr. Underwood it would have been extremely difficult, if not impossible, to have located this mark, is that correct?
Mr. Shaneyfelt.
    It would have been more difficult. Mr. Dillard's photograph actually contained some background that was of value, and we would have found it without this, but this made it much easier. Photograph No. 3, which was made by Mr. Underwood, allowed us to go immediately within a foot to a foot and a haft of, the actual mark.

Tague always knew his story was a problem and the WC had to explain his hit:
"They had to go back and rewrite the Warren Commission," Tague said. "That's where the magic bullet came from. That's the only thing they could come up with. That's the only thing they could come up with. That one bullet went through two people."

..and the bullet that hit the MH cover becomes the missed shot that ricocheted off the curb and some fragment hit Tague
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 11:10:43 PM
by Michael Capasse
»

Offline Gary Craig

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Re: Why Hoover lied about copper residue on the curb gouge
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2017, 08:53:13 PM »



Offline Bob Prudhomme

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Re: Why Hoover lied about copper residue on the curb gouge
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2017, 12:49:25 PM »
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This is the most complex aspect of solving the mystery of the JFK assassination.  Briefly, the Hoover FBI needed to squash belief in a conspiracy and at the same time protect the Secret Service’s non-reaction to what they knew was a very early first shot.  They knew the bullet gouge was caused by Oswald zeroing his scope with that early first shot but to admit it would irreparably tarnish the reputation of the Secret Service.  Yet to declare that the gouge was from another type of bullet would be to admit a conspiracy.  Both could lead to a spike in assassination attempts and a de-stabilization of the government.
What would you do?
 
The FBI at first denied any curb gouge or even a mark existed.  When confronted with photos in the media, Hoover insisted that it was only a “smear” and not caused by a bullet.  Yet Dallas Sherriff’s Deputies Walthers and Sweatt as well as eyewitness James Tague stated that it was “a bullet mark, and freshly made.”  Other than that single un-sworn letter from Hoover to Rankin, there is no hard evidence that a spectrographic analysis was ever conducted.

Hoover did what he honestly believed was best for the country.  You might have done the same thing.  I would have.

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Would you be so good as to explain to me again just how Oswald zeroed his scope by taking one shot?
"Mr. HILL. The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car." WC testimony of SA Clint Hill