Author Topic: Oswalds Rapid Fire Training Distance  (Read 42000 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Online Michael Capasse

  • Super Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3637
Re: Oswalds Rapid Fire Training Distance
« Reply #763 on: January 11, 2017, 09:06:48 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Does anybody know specifically what newspaper this was that Mark Lane was referring to?

Hugh Aimsworth (sp?) / Dallas Morning News
Lane says it during a debate vs. Joseph Ball DEC 64

« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 10:47:35 PM
by Michael Capasse
»

Online Michael Capasse

  • Super Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3637
Re: Oswalds Rapid Fire Training Distance
« Reply #764 on: January 11, 2017, 09:11:59 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Pretty sure that the prosecution would jump all over that as 'leading the witness'


Bogus Evidence
(Citation:McAdams)

Conspiracy books often claim that Mrs. Markham described the
Tippit killer as "short, heavy, and with bushy hair."

It's Mark Lane who is responsible for this factoid.

The following is excerpted from David Belin's NOVEMBER 22, 1963: YOU
ARE THE JURY.

What did Mark Lane tell the WC:
----------------------------------------------------------

      I spoke with the deponent, the eyewitness, Helen Louise
      Markham, and Mrs. Markham told me--Miss or Mrs., I didn't
      ask her if she was married--told me that she was a
      hundred feet away from the police car, not the fifty feet
      which appears in the affidavit. She gave me a more
      detailed description of the man who she said shot Officer
      Tippit. She said he was short, a little on the heavy
      side, and his hair was somewhat bushy. I think it is fair
      to state that an accurate description of Oswald would be
      average height, quite slender with thin and receding
      hair.  

------------------


except
Leading questions are allowed during cross examination

Leading questions should not be used on the direct examination of a witness unless necessary to develop the person's testimony. They are permissible, however, on cross-examination.
West's Encyclopedia of American Law, edition 2. Copyright 2008 The Gale Group, Inc. All rights reserved.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 10:22:03 PM
by Michael Capasse
»

Online Michael Capasse

  • Super Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3637
Re: Oswalds Rapid Fire Training Distance
« Reply #765 on: January 11, 2017, 09:17:39 PM »
SGT HILL:

With the description, as I remember, it was a white male, 5'8" 160 pounds, wearing a jacket, a light shirt, dark trousers, and sort of bushy brown hair.[/u] Captain Sawyer said, "Well, as much help as we have here, why don't you go with Sergeant Owens to Oak Cliff on that detail." And Bill Alexander said, "Well, if it is all right, I will go with you." And the reporter, Jim Ewell, came up, and I said an officer had been shot in Oak Cliff, and he wanted to go with us also.

Tippit had already been removed. The first man that came up to me, he said, "The man that shot him was a white male about 5'10", weighing 160 to 170 pounds, had on a Jacket and a pair of dark trousers, and brown bushy hair."
« Last Edit: May 06, 2017, 07:51:37 PM
by Michael Capasse
»

Online Walt Cakebread

  • Super Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10905
Re: Oswalds Rapid Fire Training Distance
« Reply #766 on: January 11, 2017, 09:39:29 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
SGT HILL:
Mr. HILL. We were standing there with Inspector Sawyer and Assistant District Attorney Bill Alexander came up to us, and we had been standing there for a minute when we heard the strange voice on the police radio that said something to the effect that, if I remember right, either the first call that came out said that they were in the 400 block of East Jefferson, and that an officer had been shot, and the voice on the radio, whoever it was, said he thought he was dead.
At this point Sergeant Owens said something to the effect that this would have been one of his men. And prior, on our way to the location from the city hall, a description had been broadcast of a possible suspect in the assassination.
With the description, as I remember, it was a white male, 5'8" 160 pounds, wearing a jacket, a light shirt, dark trousers, and sort of bushy brown hair.[/u] Captain Sawyer said, "Well, as much help as we have here, why don't you go with Sergeant Owens to Oak Cliff on that detail." And Bill Alexander said, "Well, if it is all right, I will go with you." And the reporter, Jim Ewell, came up, and I said an officer had been shot in Oak Cliff, and he wanted to go with us also.
In the process of getting the location straight, and I think it was at this point I was probably using 19 call number, because I was riding with him, we got the information correctly that the shooting had actually been on East 10th, and we were en route there.
We crossed the Commerce Street viaduct and turned, made a right turn to go under the viaduct on North Beckley to go up to 10th Street. As we passed, just before we got to Colorado on Beckley, an ambulance with a police car behind it passed us en route to Methodist Hospital.

We went on to the scene of the shooting where we found a squad car parked against the right or the south curb on 10th Street, with a pool of blood on the left-hand side of it near the side of the car.
Tippit had already been removed. The first man that came up to me, he said, "The man that shot him was a white male about 5'10", weighing 160 to 170 pounds, had on a Jacket and a pair of dark trousers, and brown bushy hair." [/u]

The voice of the citizen on the radio was TF Bowley....  Time 1:10pm......   About three minutes after the spent shells were found by Mooney were discovered ...Hill had yelled down to the street for the CST to come up because they had found evidence.....that the Chicken sh..  was full of chicken salad.

What was so important to Hill that he had to run down to the street and dash off to Oakcliff??

Online Bill Chapman

  • Super Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3351
  • A View to a Kill
Re: Oswalds Rapid Fire Training Distance
« Reply #767 on: January 11, 2017, 09:44:30 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Pretty sure the defense would jump all over this as leading the witness:

Mr. BALL. Did you recognize anyone in the lineup?
Mrs. MARKHAM. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. You did not? Did you see anybody--I have asked you that question before did you recognize anybody from their face?
Mrs. MARKHAM. From their face, no.
Mr. BALL. Did you identify anybody in these four people?
Mrs. MARKHAM. I didn't know nobody.
Mr. BALL. I know you didn't know anybody, but did anybody in that lineup look like anybody you had seen before?
Mrs. MARKHAM. No. I had never seen none of them, none of these men.
Mr. BALL. No one of the four?
Mrs. MARKHAM. No one of them.
Mr. BALL. No one of all four?
Mrs. MARKHAM. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Was there a number two man in there?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Number two is the one I picked.

Pretty sure you didn't post her entire testimony

Online Michael Capasse

  • Super Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3637
Re: Oswalds Rapid Fire Training Distance
« Reply #768 on: January 11, 2017, 09:48:09 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Pretty sure you didn't post her entire testimony


Oh yea..he left this out
Mrs. MARKHAM.  When I saw this man I wasn't sure, but I had cold chills just run all over me.

what good is all of it; when parts of it read like "I Love Lucy"
« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 10:48:28 PM
by Michael Capasse
»

Offline Gary Craig

  • Super Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4708
  • "The human mind is our fundamental resource." JFK
Re: Oswalds Rapid Fire Training Distance
« Reply #769 on: January 11, 2017, 10:08:07 PM »
"VINNIE IT IS ROUND"
by Mark Lane


                    "The Commission claimed that Mrs. Markham identified Lee Harvey Oswald as the man who shot
the policeman at a line up on November 22 and that in testimony before the Commission, Mrs. Markham confirmed her
positive identification of Lee Harvey Oswald as the man she saw kill Officer Tippit. Captain Fritz - who needed that
identification real quickly -- testified that the lineup was hurriedly arranged at 4:30 that afternoon, less than three
and a half hours after Tippit's death and less than that after Oswald's arrest. Mrs Markham was "quite hysterical"
when she arrived at police headquarters. Her state and the atmosphere in the lineup room are best described by the
record of her testimony."


Q: Now when you went into the room you looked these people over, these four men?

Markham: Yes , sir.

Q: Did you recognize anyone in the lineup?

Markham: No, sir

Q: You did not? Did you see anybody-I have asked you that question before-did you recognize anybody from their face?

          "Counsel wished to remind Mrs. Markham that when he had prepared her for her testimony, before
a record of her answers was made, the matter had been discussed. To prepare a witness for testimony may
be acceptable where adversary and hostile cross-examination is expected, and it is also a legitimate way of
preventing repetition and irrelevant conjecture. The record of the Warren Commission, however, reveals no
such cross-examination and was burdened to such a degree by repetition and irrelevance that the initial
preparation seems to have been for the purpose of leading the witness to give an appropiate answer."


Markham: From their face, no.

Q: Did you identify anybody in these four people?

Markham: I didn't know nobody.

Q: I know you didn't know nobody, but did anybody in that lineup look like anybody you had seen before?

Markham: No. I had never seen none of them, none of these men.

Q: No one of the four?

Markham: No one of them.

Q: No one of the four?

Markham: No, sir.

        "At this point counsel, a teacher of criminal law and procedure at the University of Southern California and
a member of the U.S. Judical Conference Advisory Committee on Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure, asked a
rather leading question. Mrs. Markham said that she recognized no one at the lineup; counsel tried five times for a
more acceptable answer. Then, departing a little from the legal procedure he teaches, he next asked his friendly but
disconcerting witness, "Was there a number two man in there?" Mrs. Markham replied, "Number two is the one I
picked." Counsel began another question:"I thought you just told me that you hadn't, but Mrs. Markham interrupted
to answer inexplicably, "I thought you wanted me to describe their clothing."


Counsel then inquired:

Q: You recognized him from his appearance?

Markham: I asked-I looked at him. When I saw this man I wasn't sure, but I had cold chills just run all over me.

        "A mystical identification at best. However, the Commission was satisfied that its lawyer had at last
obtained the right answer: "Addressing itself solely to the probative value of Mrs. Markham's contemporaneous
discription of the gunman and her identification of Oswald at a police lineup, the Commission considers her
testimony reliable."