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Author Topic: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.  (Read 7869 times)

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2018, 02:57:13 AM »
OK something else to ponder....
Supposedly, Oswald went to his PO box and found the card that notified a package [the rifle] was available for pick up. The delivery was to be made to a certain A. J. Hidell.
There we have two names that anyone alive could have recognized after the assassination.
Certainly, the post office clerk that retrieved that package would have come forward with this information. So...where were they? Did anyone ever look for him/her? Another missing part in the machinery. Too late now.

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Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2018, 02:57:13 AM »


Online Nicholas Turner

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Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2018, 06:53:47 AM »
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I understand that a 36" rifle was ordered [according to the order in evidence] However a 40" rifle is subsequently shipped? At least, the one police 'found' was a 40" rifle [I believe]
No one does this. A specific order is made and then- if there are none in stock... an advisory of such  is sent. Order fillers do not randomly [on their own] substitute an order not in stock.
A statement I located not often viewed...

From Wikipedia

'Klein's Sporting Goods had initially shipped surplus 36 inch length Carcano model M91 TS carbines ("moschettos") under their "Italian carbine" ad. However, effective April 13, 1962, Crescent Firearms, the wholesale supplier of Italian rifles to Klein's, had been unable to supply Carcano TS carbines, and had switched to surplus Carcano M91/38's,[10] which fired the same 6.5 x 52mm ammunition. The M91/38 rifles were a slightly longer (40.1 inch) short infantry version of the Carcano TS and had a 20.9 inch barrel rather than the 17.7 inch barrel of the TS carbine model. They also had a completely left-side-mounted sling rather than the under-stock sling of the TS. Thus, while Oswald got a slightly longer M91/38, which was not quite the same Italian rifle shown in the advertisement photograph (the ad photo was not changed until April, 1963), he did get a very similar telescope-modified Italian 6.5 mm short rifle.'

Were you not aware of that? Do you think it is a fair explanation?

Online Nicholas Turner

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Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2018, 07:33:05 AM »
I have used photoshop to greatly brighten the backyard image you posted and this seems to show the belt of the sling going up behind the stock and the sling doesn't look like it is fixed beneath the rifle but on the side. Can you do the same and take a look? If so, what do you think?

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2018, 12:46:35 PM »
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Never responded to-Which rifle was it..the one that was "ordered", the one in the "back yard", or the one they "found"??



I believe that I was the first researcher  to notice that the rifle in Lee's hands in the BY photo CE 133A had bottom sling swivels.... 




And I've tried to draw others attention to the silly rendition of a "sling" that appears in that photo ( CE 133A) ...but it seems that nobody recognizes that that light colored "sling" is merely something drawn on the photo to represent a sling.   Whoever the artist was ( I believe it was LHO ) was being silly and made the "sling" look like a handle on a woman's purse or possibly the rope sling on Elmer Fudd's shotgun. 

Since the dark colored rifle stock blended with the black shirt the rifle didn't stand out as Lee wanted it to. so he added the light colored "sling" to make the rifle more visible.   He and De M  planned for the photo to be found in the false dossier in the Oswald's apartment after he fired a bullet through General Walker's window.   

It's ironic that the Walker hoax failed to blossom .... Because if the plot had gone as planned Lee probably would have been in a Cuban prison and would not have been available to be set up as the assassin ......

Castro's agents would have spotted Lee's clumsy efforts and they would have known that he as a spy .... He would have been been sent to prison if he escaped the firing squad.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 12:42:42 PM by Walt Cakebread »

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2018, 12:53:41 PM »
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From Wikipedia

'Klein's Sporting Goods had initially shipped surplus 36 inch length Carcano model M91 TS carbines ("moschettos") under their "Italian carbine" ad. However, effective April 13, 1962, Crescent Firearms, the wholesale supplier of Italian rifles to Klein's, had been unable to supply Carcano TS carbines, and had switched to surplus Carcano M91/38's,[10] which fired the same 6.5 x 52mm ammunition. The M91/38 rifles were a slightly longer (40.1 inch) short infantry version of the Carcano TS and had a 20.9 inch barrel rather than the 17.7 inch barrel of the TS carbine model. They also had a completely left-side-mounted sling rather than the under-stock sling of the TS. Thus, while Oswald got a slightly longer M91/38, which was not quite the same Italian rifle shown in the advertisement photograph (the ad photo was not changed until April, 1963), he did get a very similar telescope-modified Italian 6.5 mm short rifle.'

Were you not aware of that? Do you think it is a fair explanation?

It's a logical and fair explanation ...EXCEPT The part about the sling being mounted on the left is a lie....They also had a completely left-side-mounted sling rather than the under-stock sling of the TS.

Some model 91/38 short rifles had the sling mounted on the bottom.....

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Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2018, 12:53:41 PM »


Online Nicholas Turner

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Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2018, 01:08:03 PM »
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It's a logical and fair explanation ...EXCEPT The part about the sling being mounted on the left is a lie....They also had a completely left-side-mounted sling rather than the under-stock sling of the TS.

Some model 91/38 short rifles had the sling mounted on the bottom.....

Could you provide evidence to support that please.

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2018, 03:52:25 PM »
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I have used photoshop to greatly brighten the backyard image you posted and this seems to show the belt of the sling going up behind the stock and the sling doesn't look like it is fixed beneath the rifle but on the side. Can you do the same and take a look? If so, what do you think?

Thanks for taking the time to closely examine the sling issue....  But if you look closely you will see what appears to be a sling is nothing more than some "artist's" idea of a sling on the rifle...At neither end is the drawn in sling attached to the right place if it truly was a sling.....

The model 91/38 rifles that had side mounted slings, the rear loop was about three inches forward of the butt plate...and the front swivel was at the front barrel band about 11 inches back from the muzzle end of the barrel.

I know of no model 91/38 carcano  that had BOTTOM sling mounts ONLY...   Some of them were manufactured with DUAL sling mounts....ie; The sling could be mounted either on the side or the bottom.....

I believe the rifle that Lee was photograhed holding was one of the carcanos with the dual sling mounts ....whereas the TSBD rifle had only the side mounted sling.....

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2018, 03:56:39 PM »
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Could you provide evidence to support that please.

I could copy it from a book about the history of the Mannlicher Carcano....But what good would that do?   You would still doubt the facts....

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Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2018, 03:56:39 PM »


Online Nicholas Turner

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Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2018, 04:21:52 PM »
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Thanks for taking the time to closely examine the sling issue....  But if you look closely you will see what appears to be a sling is nothing more than some "artist's" idea of a sling on the rifle...At neither end is the drawn in sling attached to the right place if it truly was a sling.....

The model 91/38 rifles that had side mounted slings, the rear loop was about three inches forward of the butt plate...and the front swivel was at the front barrel band about 11 inches back from the muzzle end of the barrel.

I know of no model 91/38 carcano  that had BOTTOM sling mounts ONLY...   Some of them were manufactured with DUAL sling mounts....ie; The sling could be mounted either on the side or the bottom.....

I believe the rifle that Lee was photograhed holding was one of the carcanos with the dual sling mounts ....whereas the TSBD rifle had only the side mounted sling.....

Thanks for the extra detail. I'll take another look and get back to you.

Online Nicholas Turner

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Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2018, 04:23:34 PM »
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I could copy it from a book about the history of the Mannlicher Carcano....But what good would that do?   You would still doubt the facts....

I question information provided, which is only right, but facts are facts so would be interested in seeing the evidence and where it comes from.

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Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2018, 04:23:34 PM »