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Author Topic: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.  (Read 7872 times)

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #130 on: November 05, 2018, 08:50:07 PM »
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The entire case rests on an absurd theory that the rifle was disassembled and carried into the TSBD in a paper sack that witnesses swore was not more than 27 inches long.....

Don't you LNer's ever tire of portraying yourselves as addled brained fools?


How can it be an "absurd theory" when a package described as a paper sack was placed on the rear seat of Mr.Frazier's car by the main suspect. It could be disputed but to describe this issue as " absurd" smacks of trying to belittle genuine evidence.

Mr.Frazier has said he only took a brief glance at the paper sack and in such circumstances a discrepancy of a few inches is entirely possible. If indeed the paper bag contained curtain rods, surely they would be taped up in a bundle and carried in, and not cupped vertically against ones's shoulder.cupping them underarm horizontally  And what happened to the curtain rods...did they just disappear.

If indeed the paper bag contained curtain rods, surely they would be taped up in a bundle and carried in, cupping them underarm horizontally and not cupped vertically against ones's shoulder. And what happened to the curtain rods...did they just disappear.

If indeed the paper bag contained curtain rods,  Fritz said that Lee denied telling Frazier that the flimsy paper sack contained curtain rods....

surely they would be taped up in a bundle   WHY??    Simply because that's your idea of how the imaginary curtain rods would be packaged?

The fact that Frazier said that the sack was made of flimsy light weight brown paper......would be good reason for Lee to carry the package cupped in his hand .....It was a damp rainy morning, and he didn't want his sandwich and fruit to fall out of the ruptured bottom of that flimsy paper sack.

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Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #130 on: November 05, 2018, 08:50:07 PM »


Offline Alan Hardaker

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Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #131 on: November 08, 2018, 11:56:54 PM »
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That's one of the siller arguments I've ever heard.  All that means is that he's being blamed for something he didn't do.

Well no it isn't a silly argument. Assuming that Oswald was the lone gunman and assuming his motives were fame and notoriety, it's entirely believable for him to say such a thing. In order to muddy the waters, in order to drag out the interrogation and his defence. Indeed to string out the whole circus and fame thing that his trial would attract. Who knows the state of his mind at that particular time. 

If he actually was a patsy, again he is admitting he was involved in some way. If you read some posts on here, some people think he was completely innocent. His claim that he was a patsy, as I said is clear admittance that he was involved.




Offline Alan Hardaker

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Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #132 on: November 09, 2018, 12:07:50 AM »
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Bull.

She peered in the end of a rolled up and tied up blanket that she didn't untie or unroll and saw a piece of a wooden stock that she took to be a rifle.  And that was 6 weeks earlier.  Ruth Paine was there and translating for Marina when the police arrived.  She knows what Marina said.

Keep in mind, Marina also knew nothing about rifles or firearms.

Mr. RANKIN. In Russia did you have a rifle or a shotgun?
Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know the difference. One and the other shoots. You men. That is your business.

So the idea that Marina somehow not only "knew" that this was a rifle, but that it was the C2766 Mannlicher-Carcano is patently absurd.

It's not bull. It's entirely possible for Marina to have agreed, according to her evidence, that she said she did see a rifle of some description. The fact that she said she saw a wooden stock could just as easily mean she saw the wooden stock of a rifle.

What she didn't know was that gawd knows how many years later someone would claim that when she said she saw a "Wooden stock" she just meant it was a piece of wood that in no way could be described as a rifle.


Offline Alan Hardaker

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Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #133 on: November 09, 2018, 12:15:02 AM »
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If indeed the paper bag contained curtain rods, surely they would be taped up in a bundle and carried in, cupping them underarm horizontally and not cupped vertically against ones's shoulder. And what happened to the curtain rods...did they just disappear.

If indeed the paper bag contained curtain rods,  Fritz said that Lee denied telling Frazier that the flimsy paper sack contained curtain rods....

surely they would be taped up in a bundle   WHY??    Simply because that's your idea of how the imaginary curtain rods would be packaged?

The fact that Frazier said that the sack was made of flimsy light weight brown paper......would be good reason for Lee to carry the package cupped in his hand .....It was a damp rainy morning, and he didn't want his sandwich and fruit to fall out of the ruptured bottom of that flimsy paper sack.

So we now have to believe " Lee" rather than a genuine gent who had no reason to lie. I wonder if " Lee" was....er...fibbing when he denied saying anything about curtain rods.....could it be that he knew the curtain rods never existed and that he couldn't produce the curtain rods.

Nooooo...Lee had no reason to lie.

And indeed on the " Patsy" front, Oswald had more than enough time to tell Fritz all about the plot that turned him into the " a Patsy".
He was in custody long enough and was interrogated in great depth. I doubt he mentioned being a patsy the whole time he was interrogated apart from shouting out to the reporters in the hallway. This suggests to me that Oswald simply made that claim that he was " A patsy" just to string out the whole circus. If he was just a patsy he would've gave Fritz and co all the information they needed to clear him. Oswald wasn't a patsy...he was the lone gunman who assassinated JFK.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 12:31:27 AM by Alan Hardaker »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #134 on: November 09, 2018, 08:57:13 AM »
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So we now have to believe " Lee" rather than a genuine gent who had no reason to lie. I wonder if " Lee" was....er...fibbing when he denied saying anything about curtain rods.....could it be that he knew the curtain rods never existed and that he couldn't produce the curtain rods.

Nooooo...Lee had no reason to lie.

And indeed on the " Patsy" front, Oswald had more than enough time to tell Fritz all about the plot that turned him into the " a Patsy".
He was in custody long enough and was interrogated in great depth. I doubt he mentioned being a patsy the whole time he was interrogated apart from shouting out to the reporters in the hallway. This suggests to me that Oswald simply made that claim that he was " A patsy" just to string out the whole circus. If he was just a patsy he would've gave Fritz and co all the information they needed to clear him. Oswald wasn't a patsy...he was the lone gunman who assassinated JFK.

Oswald had more than enough time to tell Fritz all about the plot that turned him into the " a Patsy". He was in custody long enough and was interrogated in great depth.

Ever considered the possibility that Oswald understood he had been set up but did not have a clue about what really happened? And how do you know that he did not tell Fritz about him being a patsy?

I doubt he mentioned being a patsy the whole time he was interrogated apart from shouting out to the reporters in the hallway. This suggests to me that Oswald simply made that claim that he was " A patsy" just to string out the whole circus.

So, something you don't know for sure and you merely doubt happened suggests that to you? Wow!

If he was just a patsy he would've gave Fritz and co all the information they needed to clear him.

Again, how do you know he didn't do exactly that?


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Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #134 on: November 09, 2018, 08:57:13 AM »


Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #135 on: November 09, 2018, 02:44:18 PM »
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Well no it isn't a silly argument. Assuming that Oswald was the lone gunman and assuming his motives were fame and notoriety, it's entirely believable for him to say such a thing. In order to muddy the waters, in order to drag out the interrogation and his defence. Indeed to string out the whole circus and fame thing that his trial would attract. Who knows the state of his mind at that particular time. 

If he actually was a patsy, again he is admitting he was involved in some way. If you read some posts on here, some people think he was completely innocent. His claim that he was a patsy, as I said is clear admittance that he was involved.

Who knows the state of his mind at that particular time. 

Clearly, You think you know Lee's state of mind at that time , Mr Hardaker.....   But you are not one of the most rational members of the forum.

 Assuming that Oswald was the lone gunman and assuming his motives were fame and notoriety, it's entirely believable for him to say such a thing.    ....Alan Hardaker

This is a classic....  You assume that Lee was the assassin and he wanted fame.....  but when he had the chance to crow about his deed ..He denied that he had shot anybody.....  Now that's a real Hardaker!.....

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #136 on: November 09, 2018, 02:59:27 PM »
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So we now have to believe " Lee" rather than a genuine gent who had no reason to lie. I wonder if " Lee" was....er...fibbing when he denied saying anything about curtain rods.....could it be that he knew the curtain rods never existed and that he couldn't produce the curtain rods.

Nooooo...Lee had no reason to lie.

And indeed on the " Patsy" front, Oswald had more than enough time to tell Fritz all about the plot that turned him into the " a Patsy".
He was in custody long enough and was interrogated in great depth. I doubt he mentioned being a patsy the whole time he was interrogated apart from shouting out to the reporters in the hallway. This suggests to me that Oswald simply made that claim that he was " A patsy" just to string out the whole circus. If he was just a patsy he would've gave Fritz and co all the information they needed to clear him. Oswald wasn't a patsy...he was the lone gunman who assassinated JFK.

I wonder if " Lee" was....er...fibbing when he denied saying anything about curtain rods.....could it be that he knew the curtain rods never existed and that he couldn't produce the curtain rods.

WHY ??? Would Lee deny that he was transporting curtain rods ??   If he had in fact been carrying curtain rods he wouldn't have needed to deny it.   You, Mr Hardaker clearly believe that Lee Lee would have been required to produce the curtain rods....  If He had been carrying curtain rods, ( I doubt that he was) why would he have been required to prove it?  Simply because the curtain rods weren't preset does not prove that he wasn't carrying curtain rods....You may recall that a couple of items that were connected to Lee Oswald  (His Jacket, and a clipboard) weren't found until a couple of weeks after the murder.   So if curtain rods had been found by one of the employees a couple of weeks after the murder... Do you automatically assume that he would have known that they were vital evidence??

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #137 on: November 09, 2018, 03:51:49 PM »
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Well no it isn't a silly argument. Assuming that Oswald was the lone gunman and assuming his motives were fame and notoriety, it's entirely believable for him to say such a thing.

It's also entirely believable for him to say such a thing if he was not involved at all.

Quote
If he actually was a patsy, again he is admitting he was involved in some way. If you read some posts on here, some people think he was completely innocent. His claim that he was a patsy, as I said is clear admittance that he was involved.

You're just restating the claim.  That doesn't explain why "patsy" necessarily means involved in some way.

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Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #137 on: November 09, 2018, 03:51:49 PM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #138 on: November 09, 2018, 03:53:48 PM »
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It's not bull. It's entirely possible for Marina to have agreed, according to her evidence, that she said she did see a rifle of some description. The fact that she said she saw a wooden stock could just as easily mean she saw the wooden stock of a rifle.

What she didn't know was that gawd knows how many years later someone would claim that when she said she saw a "Wooden stock" she just meant it was a piece of wood that in no way could be described as a rifle.

Ruth Paine told us exactly what Marina meant.

Mrs. PAINE - And she indicated to me that she had peered into this roll and saw a portion of what she took to be a gun she knew her husband to have, a rifle. And I then translated this to the officers that she knew that her husband had a gun that he had stored in here.


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #139 on: November 09, 2018, 04:00:54 PM »
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So we now have to believe " Lee" rather than a genuine gent who had no reason to lie. I wonder if " Lee" was....er...fibbing when he denied saying anything about curtain rods.....could it be that he knew the curtain rods never existed and that he couldn't produce the curtain rods.

Nooooo...Lee had no reason to lie.

The circular argument goes something like this:

It's evidence that Oswald shot JFK because he lied about what was in the bag.

How do you know he lied about what was in the bag?

Because he shot JFK.

Quote
And indeed on the " Patsy" front, Oswald had more than enough time to tell Fritz all about the plot that turned him into the " a Patsy".

Why would you assume that Oswald would know about a plot?

Quote
He was in custody long enough and was interrogated in great depth. I doubt he mentioned being a patsy the whole time he was interrogated apart from shouting out to the reporters in the hallway.

Why?  He said multiple times that he didn't know what this was all about and that he didn't shoot anybody.

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Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #139 on: November 09, 2018, 04:00:54 PM »