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Author Topic: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.  (Read 7871 times)

Offline John Mytton

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At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« on: October 25, 2018, 06:45:00 AM »
At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.

Day after day this JFK debate cover's literally every topic and what I consider to be the most important piece of evidence the rifle isn't discussed nearly as much as it should. The experienced CT's seem to know that Oswald's rifle (LOL) Hehehe, is the centerpiece of this whole case and they make a thousand excuses to keep it away from Oswald but the mountain of evidence surrounding Oswald purchasing, receiving, possessing and using the rifle is overwhelming.

This is just quickly off the top of my head;

The handwriting from the Kleins microfilm records(CE773) was examined by experts and based on many examples of Oswald's handwriting CE773 was determined to be written by Oswald.
The writing on the money order was determined to be from Lee Harvey Oswald.
The order was for A J Hidell, Oswald's alias.
Oswald was arrested with AJ Hidell ID which also had his photo.
The order was sent to Oswald's PO box.
Kleins didn't say that the package was returned.
The Post Office didn't say that the package was returned or still there.
Oswald was photographed with C2766 as analysed by higher quality prints seen by the HSCA experts.
Oswald had photos of General Walker's house which were timestamped to be not long after Oswald received the rifle.
Oswald had a map with General Walker's house marked with a cross.
Oswald wrote a note at that time that indicated that he was going to do something very bad.
General Walker was shot at with a bullet which while mangled and therefore couldn't be perfectly matched was consistent with Oswald's rifle.
Oswald told Marina that he shot at General Walker.
Jeanne De Mohrenschildt saw a rifle at the Oswald residence.
Oswald tells George de Mohrenschildt that he likes target shooting.
Marina saw a rifle butt in her blanket on the floor of where they stored their things in the Paine garage.
On the 22nd when Marina was asked by the Police if Lee had a rifle she led them to the blanket which was now empty.
Oswald tells Frazier he has curtain rods.
Oswald tells the police he has just his lunch.
Oswald tells Frazier he will get lunch from the lunch truck.
Frazier saw the long package on the back seat.
Linnie, Frazier's sister saw Oswald put the package on the back seat.
Oswald tells the Police that he kept his lunch on his lap.
Oswald lies and says the man's body with the rifle in the backyard photos isn't him.
Oswald leaves out the Neeley street address when describing where he was recently living.
Oswald's prints are on a large package found in the sniper's nest.
Oswald's palm print is on the rifle.
The bullet fragments in the Limo came exclusively from Oswald's rifle.
The bullet at Parkland came exclusively from Oswald's rifle.
In 1993 high quality prints of multiple exposures of Oswald's rifle trigger guard were examined and found to be Oswald's.
Oswald's shirt fibers were found to be a match to a little tuft of fibers that appeared to be fresh that were found in a crevice on Oswald's rifle.
Howard Brennan testified that the man he saw in the sniper's nest window was Oswald.
Boxes in the sniper's nest had Oswald's prints.
Oswald immediately leaves work, gets a revolver, kills a cop then tries to kill more.

JohnM

« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 11:10:34 AM by John Mytton »

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At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« on: October 25, 2018, 06:45:00 AM »


Offline Ross Lidell

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Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2018, 07:10:33 AM »
It was also Oswald's rifle "at the start of the day"! ;D

Online Ray Mitcham

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Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2018, 10:31:40 AM »
"It was Oswald's rifle at the end of the day" but only because it was made that way. It's amazing what you can do when you are the authorities

Online Rob Caprio

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Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2018, 02:36:11 PM »
Again, no evidence is cited. Instead we just see a regurgitation of the WC's claims which are NOT supported by the actual evidence in the twenty-six volumes.

The rifle is the key piece of evidence and the WC never could support the claim that LHO ordered and received CE 139.

Online Richard Smith

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Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2018, 04:35:16 PM »
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Again, no evidence is cited. Instead we just see a regurgitation of the WC's claims which are NOT supported by the actual evidence in the twenty-six volumes.

The rifle is the key piece of evidence and the WC never could support the claim that LHO ordered and received CE 139.

LOL. There is an entire laundry list of evidence cited in the OP.  If that does not suffice, however, what "evidence" would convince you that this rifle was owned by Oswald?  Can you name something specific that is missing from this evidentiary record instead of responding with another of your canned nonresponses?  That is a rhetorical question since I know that you cannot.

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Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2018, 04:35:16 PM »


Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2018, 08:25:39 PM »
Quote
Jeanne De Mohrenschildt saw a rifle at the Oswald residence.
Oswald tells George de Mohrenschildt that he likes target shooting.
Quote
Mr. JENNER. Now, when you saw that, and being surprised, were you concerned about it?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. I just asked what on earth is he doing with a rifle?
Mr. JENNER. What did she say?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. She said, "Oh, he just loves to shoot." I said, "Where on earth does he shoot? Where can he shoot?" When they lived in a little house. "Oh, he goes in the park and he shoots at leaves and things like that." But it didn't strike me too funny...

Mr. JENNER. Didn't you think it was strange to have someone say he is going in a public park and shooting leaves?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. But he was taking the baby out. He goes with her, and that was his amusement.
Mr. JENNER. Did she say that?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; that was his amusement, practicing in the park, shooting leaves.  That wasn't strange to me, because any time I go to an amusement park I go to the rifles and start shooting. So I didn't find anything strange.
Yeah, nothing strange there...all perfectly normal. Probably used the baby stroller as a bench rest Thumb1:

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2018, 10:18:15 PM »
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"It was Oswald's rifle at the end of the day" but only because it was made that way. It's amazing what you can do when you are the authorities

It's amazing what you can do when you are the authorities

Yes you're right.... And when you are in conflict with the POTUS and the Director of the FBI you're as powerless the Warren Commissioners were in January of 1964 when they realized that Hoover was the Key conspirator.

"It was Oswald's rifle at the end of the day"

On this issue I do believe that Lee did in fact order the rifle from Kleins.... But it was not his money that bought the MO that he sent.....

De Morhenschildt and Lee had decided to create an image of Lee Oswald as a communist revolutionary to fool Castro's agents into believing that Lee truly was a supporter of Castro.  They cooked up a scheme that was supposed to make it look as though Lee had tried to shoot General Walker ( Who was an outspoken foe of Fidel Castro)

THAT was the purpose of buying that easily traceable  rifle .....  Hoover knew long before the murder of JFK that they could connect Lee Oswald with that rifle.   Hoover knew when the rifle arrived in the Dallas PO where P.O.inspector Holmes was Hoover's spy, that the turn coat Marine had received a rifle from Kleins.   Although Lee was a US agent when he "defected" to the USSR and not a turncoat Marine Hoover was out of the loop and didn't know that Lee was a US agent. In his blind hatred for communists he was determined to put the turncoat Marine in prison.

 

Online Rob Caprio

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Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2018, 10:20:03 PM »
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LOL. There is an entire laundry list of evidence cited in the OP.  If that does not suffice, however, what "evidence" would convince you that this rifle was owned by Oswald?  Can you name something specific that is missing from this evidentiary record instead of responding with another of your canned nonresponses?  That is a rhetorical question since I know that you cannot.

You still don't understand what constitutes evidence I see. I see a bunch of *claims* that were never supported.

Actual evidence would convince me, but there is none. You're sunk.

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Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2018, 10:20:03 PM »


Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2018, 10:29:42 PM »
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Yeah, nothing strange there...all perfectly normal. Probably used the baby stroller as a bench rest Thumb1:

Mr. JENNER. Now, when you saw that, and being surprised, were you concerned about it?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. I just asked what on earth is he doing with a rifle?
Mr. JENNER. What did she say?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. She said, "Oh, he just loves to shoot." I said, "Where on earth does he shoot? Where can he shoot?" When they lived in a little house. "Oh, he goes in the park and he shoots at leaves and things like that." But it didn't strike me too funny...

Mr. JENNER. Didn't you think it was strange to have someone say he is going in a public park and shooting leaves?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. But he was taking the baby out. He goes with her, and that was his amusement.
Mr. JENNER. Did she say that?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; that was his amusement, practicing in the park, shooting leaves.  That wasn't strange to me, because any time I go to an amusement park I go to the rifles and start shooting. So I didn't find anything strange.

Can you imagine the baby's reaction to the sound of a rifle shot?    And Yet Jeanne De M dumps that garbage on Jenner who gobbles it up and it enters the record as if it's entirely believable...   And this is the crap that LNer's accept as truth.

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2018, 11:43:08 PM »
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At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.

LOL

Quote
The handwriting from the Kleins microfilm records(CE773) was examined by experts and based on many examples of Oswald's handwriting CE773 was determined to be written by Oswald.

Unscientific and biased handwriting "analysis" of 2 block letters from a photocopy of a microfilm copy of a 2-inch order coupon from microfilm that is now "missing".

Quote
The writing on the money order was determined to be from Lee Harvey Oswald.

There is nothing to connect the money order found in Virginia -- which has no evidence of ever having been cashed or deposited into Klein's account -- with the C2766 rifle.

Quote
The order was for A J Hidell, Oswald's alias.

There is no evidence of Oswald ever using "A J Hidell" as an alias.

Quote
Oswald was arrested with AJ Hidell ID which also had his photo.

That was the story.  But it wasn't mentioned by anyone or in any report written prior to the discovery of the Klein's order.

Quote
The order was sent to Oswald's PO box.

There is no evidence of such a package ever going through the postal service.

Quote
Kleins didn't say that the package was returned.

That would assume that such a package was ever mailed.

Quote
The Post Office didn't say that the package was returned or still there.

The post office also didn't say that such a package was ever delivered or picked up.

Quote
Oswald was photographed with C2766 as analysed by higher quality prints seen by the HSCA experts.

Flat out false.

Quote
Oswald had photos of General Walker's house which were timestamped to be not long after Oswald received the rifle.

BS, as you have no evidence that Oswald ever received the rifle. You also have no evidence that Oswald had these photos.

Quote
Oswald had a map with General Walker's house marked with a cross.

Irrelevant to the ownership of a rifle.

Quote
Oswald wrote a note at that time that indicated that he was going to do something very bad.

The note you refer to is unsigned, undated, and doesn't mention Walker.  It also doesn't mention doing "something very bad".  That's just your speculation.

Quote
General Walker was shot at with a bullet which while mangled and therefore couldn't be perfectly matched was consistent with Oswald's rifle.

No it wasn't.  It was described in the contemporaneous police report as being steel-jacketed.  Walker stated that the mangled bullet placed into evidence as CE 573 was not the same bullet he examined at the time of the shooting.  "Consistent with" is just a weaselly way of saying "can't be ruled out".

Quote
Oswald told Marina that he shot at General Walker.

Marina said a lot of things.

Quote
Jeanne De Mohrenschildt saw a rifle at the Oswald residence.

Tells you nothing about C2766.

Quote
Oswald tells George de Mohrenschildt that he likes target shooting.

LOL

Quote
Marina saw a rifle butt in her blanket on the floor of where they stored their things in the Paine garage.

She saw a piece of wooden stock that she took to be a rifle in a tied up blanket roll about 6 weeks before the assassination.  That tells you nothing about C2766.

Quote
On the 22nd when Marina was asked by the Police if Lee had a rifle she led them to the blanket which was now empty.

That also tells you nothing about C2766 or even when the blanket became empty.

Quote
Oswald tells Frazier he has curtain rods.
Oswald tells the police he has just his lunch.
Oswald tells Frazier he will get lunch from the lunch truck.
Frazier saw the long package on the back seat.
Linnie, Frazier's sister saw Oswald put the package on the back seat.
Oswald tells the Police that he kept his lunch on his lap.

All completely irrelevant to the ownership of a rifle.

Quote
Oswald lies and says the man's body with the rifle in the backyard photos isn't him.

You haven't demonstrated that Oswald said that or that it was a lie.

Quote
Oswald leaves out the Neeley street address when describing where he was recently living.
Oswald's prints are on a large package found in the sniper's nest.

Also completely irrelevant to the ownership of a rifle.

Quote
Oswald's palm print is on the rifle.

No, a partial palm print showed up a week later on an index card.

Quote
The bullet fragments in the Limo came exclusively from Oswald's rifle.

Doesn't actually demonstrate that it was Oswald's rifle.

Quote
The bullet at Parkland came exclusively from Oswald's rifle.

Also doesn't actually demonstrate that it was Oswald's rifle.  You're just assuming the thing you're trying to prove.  Besides that, the bullet found on the unrelated stretcher at Parkland was described by OP Wright, who got the bullet from Tomlinson, as pointed.  Neither Tomlinson or Wright or Johnsen or Rowley could identify CE399 as the bullet that they supposedly handled.

Quote
In 1993 high quality prints of multiple exposures of Oswald's rifle trigger guard were examined and found to be Oswald's.

Why should anyone believe that the photos that were pulled out of a briefcase 30 years later were of the trigger guard on C2766?  How were they authenticated?

Quote
Oswald's shirt fibers were found to be a match to a little tuft of fibers that appeared to be fresh that were found in a crevice on Oswald's rifle.

And by "match", you mean not unique to any specific shirt.

Quote
Howard Brennan testified that the man he saw in the sniper's nest window was Oswald.

Howard Brennan also claimed to see the guy crouched behind boxes under a window "from the belt up" and thought he could estimate the guy's height, weight, and age.  Howard Brennan also failed to identify anyone in the police lineup he attended on November 22, he thought there were 7 people in the lineup and had seen Oswald's picture twice on television before the lineup.  Brennan also claimed at different times to have seen both the shooter firing the head shot and seeing JFK's head explode (which would actually have been impossible from his location).  The Z film also never shows Brennan looking anywhere but the motorcade.

Quote
Boxes in the sniper's nest had Oswald's prints.
Oswald immediately leaves work, gets a revolver, kills a cop then tries to kill more.

I think you've now totally forgotten that this was supposed to be a list of things demonstrating that C2766 was "Oswald's rifle".  But then that's what happens when you just regurgitate the same old talking points without actually thinking about what you're saying.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 11:47:59 PM by John Iacoletti »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: At the end of the day it was Oswald's rifle.
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2018, 11:43:08 PM »