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Author Topic: Even in 1946 the Mannlicher-Carcano was known to be a crappy weapon  (Read 1257 times)

Offline Mark Valenti

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From the Tampa Tribune, October 1946:


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Online Jerry Freeman

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Re: Even in 1946 the Mannlicher-Carcano was known to be a crappy weapon
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2018, 03:15:02 AM »
  CE2766 would have been more effective if used as a club...
Quote
You will find enormous inconsistencies in the language about Oswald’s rifle because few if any of the researchers were gun nuts apparently. For one, even the Warren Commission called the rifle a “Mannlicher-Carcano,” and you will find that repeated all over the bunkers and debunker websites today. The Mannlicher is a completely different rifle that has nothing to do with the Carcano except for the fact that both guns use a single stack “en-bloc” clip, kind of like the metal clip that M1 Garands use in doublestack form.
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If you can find one, they run around $175.

Online Ross Lidell

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Re: Even in 1946 the Mannlicher-Carcano was known to be a crappy weapon
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2018, 03:57:44 AM »
How does this "estimate" prevent the rifle from firing bullets through its barrel and hitting a target?

Online Mitch Todd

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Re: Even in 1946 the Mannlicher-Carcano was known to be a crappy weapon
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2018, 05:07:55 AM »
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From the Tampa Tribune, October 1946:


So, some guy heard that it happened a handful  of times (out of millions produced) and......

Alex Eichner, who is an authority on the Carcano, noted that:

"There have been various disparaging remarks made about the Carcano which - over the time - have tainted its reputation. Most of these remarks are hearsay rumors which one firearms writer has copied from the other, as so frequently happens. The most damaging is probably the story about a WW II Allied soldier getting killed when firing a Carcano, thus giving the Carcano the reputation of being unsafe. The story goes that the firing pin ruptured the primer causing the expanding gases to propel the firing pin backwards, breaking the safety retaining pin and into the face of the unfortunate soldier. The only problem about this story is that no one seems to know the name of the soldier, the nearer circumstances of the incident, or any other provable fact. Since then, there have been no other reports of injuries even remotely similar to this incident, thus either suggesting the incident was a fluke or, more likely, false wartime rumor" (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Loginl)

I don't see any modern references to Carcano firing pin failures, which suggests that Eichner was on the right track, and Hatcher wasn't.

And the only battle rifle I know of that's known for injuring it's own users is the Canadian Ross (at least the original MkIIIs).



Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Even in 1946 the Mannlicher-Carcano was known to be a crappy weapon
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2018, 01:15:11 PM »
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So, some guy heard that it happened a handful  of times (out of millions produced) and......

Alex Eichner, who is an authority on the Carcano, noted that:

"There have been various disparaging remarks made about the Carcano which - over the time - have tainted its reputation. Most of these remarks are hearsay rumors which one firearms writer has copied from the other, as so frequently happens. The most damaging is probably the story about a WW II Allied soldier getting killed when firing a Carcano, thus giving the Carcano the reputation of being unsafe. The story goes that the firing pin ruptured the primer causing the expanding gases to propel the firing pin backwards, breaking the safety retaining pin and into the face of the unfortunate soldier. The only problem about this story is that no one seems to know the name of the soldier, the nearer circumstances of the incident, or any other provable fact. Since then, there have been no other reports of injuries even remotely similar to this incident, thus either suggesting the incident was a fluke or, more likely, false wartime rumor" (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Loginl)

I don't see any modern references to Carcano firing pin failures, which suggests that Eichner was on the right track, and Hatcher wasn't.

And the only battle rifle I know of that's known for injuring it's own users is the Canadian Ross (at least the original MkIIIs).

Bill Donovan (aka "Wild Bill Donovan") was the head of the OSS during WWII  .....  His Black Propaganda department created the tale about the Mannlicher Carcano being dangerous to the shooter.   This created fear and apprehension in the Italian soldiers.... who became reluctant to fire the rifle.    ( It may be the source for the fact that many of the Carcanos that were left on the battlefield in Sicily when the Italians surrendered  had never been fired, and the source for the GI's joke....reflecting on the lack of courage of the Italian soldier... "Carcano rifle ...the rifle that was dropped once , never fired"  )   

My personal knowledge about the Carcano is that the rifle is a good solid weapon.....And most certainly not a danger to fire.   It is NOT on par with the rifles of the allies and certainly not the German's mauser.....   But still a good quality ( not excellent) rifle.  The major problem is the difficulty of opening the bolt to extract the spent shell and chamber a new round.....It is cranky and difficult to open .....And the effort to open the bolt draws the rifle off target and the shooter has to find the target and re-aim after each shot.  Therefore it is a very poor choice to use where rapid fire is expected and especially poor to use against a moving target.   

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Re: Even in 1946 the Mannlicher-Carcano was known to be a crappy weapon
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2018, 01:15:11 PM »


Offline Mark Valenti

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Re: Even in 1946 the Mannlicher-Carcano was known to be a crappy weapon
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2018, 02:25:11 PM »
Sure, it was all part of a propaganda effort aimed at those Italian soldiers who read American newspapers, right?

Utter bullxxxx.

Here are two more articles on the crappy nature of the MC rifle, one from 1940 and one from 1943.





Offline Rob Caprio

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Re: Even in 1946 the Mannlicher-Carcano was known to be a crappy weapon
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2018, 03:23:00 PM »
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How does this "estimate" prevent the rifle from firing bullets through its barrel and hitting a target?

How does the WC's claim that it fired bullets through its barrel on November 22, 1963, and hit JFK with NO supporting evidence show that LHO was the assassin?

Online Brian Walker

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Re: Even in 1946 the Mannlicher-Carcano was known to be a crappy weapon
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2018, 08:31:29 PM »
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From the Tampa Tribune, October 1946:



I have told you Ct's this before. If you honestly believe that the shots could not have been accomplished by a MC from that distance than get together and build a range with the exact setup and prove it. If you do you win the argument. There some things that you CT's could do to win this argument if you guys really believed some of the arguments you put forth.

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Re: Even in 1946 the Mannlicher-Carcano was known to be a crappy weapon
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2018, 08:31:29 PM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Even in 1946 the Mannlicher-Carcano was known to be a crappy weapon
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2018, 08:52:57 PM »
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I have told you Ct's this before. If you honestly believe that the shots could not have been accomplished by a MC from that distance than get together and build a range with the exact setup and prove it. If you do you win the argument. There some things that you CT's could do to win this argument if you guys really believed some of the arguments you put forth.

I recognize that Hatcher was a leading authority on rifles.   And I respect his opinion, but sometimes even "experts" are in error....

Hatcher said  "The bolt construction is such that a punctured primer is likely to blow the firing pin right back into the face of the user"

I don't know where Hatcher got that idea ???    There is a large gas vent hole bored into the bolt just to the rear of the bolt locking lugs which is there to vent any gas that might escape around the firing pin.   

Any rifle can blow up if the wrong ammo is loaded into it or if a cartridge is loaded with the wrong powder . or the barrel is rusty or dirty....But I don't see how the firing pin could be blow back into the user face .   


Offline Mark Valenti

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Re: Even in 1946 the Mannlicher-Carcano was known to be a crappy weapon
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2018, 09:36:02 PM »
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I have told you Ct's this before. If you honestly believe that the shots could not have been accomplished by a MC from that distance than get together and build a range with the exact setup and prove it. If you do you win the argument. There some things that you CT's could do to win this argument if you guys really believed some of the arguments you put forth.


There have been so many recreations of the alleged feat.

The ones where shooters are stationary, on the ground, shooting at a stationary target, the results are largely positive.

The ones where shooters are made to stand above and behind a moving target, the results are not so good.

This has all been dissected endlessly. Oswald's alleged feat was nearly impossible for a guy with his limited skills and practice time. And the weapon itself was known to be dodgy for decades leading up to 1963.

None of this means it couldn't have happened -- the impossible happens all the time. But it's silly to claim that the feat was easy to achieve. It clearly was either impossible or the biggest fluke in history.


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Re: Even in 1946 the Mannlicher-Carcano was known to be a crappy weapon
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2018, 09:36:02 PM »