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Author Topic: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242  (Read 81892 times)

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #200 on: October 15, 2018, 01:08:23 AM »
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Why the triple underpass? You explained to someone earlier that the lines of sight will converge at Altgens location. If we traced 3 LOS back to the underpass they will all fall at different locations since they converge at Altgens they will separate as they go West. I can still do it but why, is there some photographic evidence you are using for comparison?
 I know your opinion on Chaney's position but if you base it on that 90 degree shadow of Chaney you have to be wrong. Angles change a lot when viewed at a shallow angle. So what is actually 90 degrees from above, which is the correct measurement, will change by 40 degrees or so. What I have learned studying perspective vs my own eye is our intuitive understanding when trying to understand the 3d world as portrayed in a 2d picture is totally messed up. What you measure at 90 degrees is absolutely, physically, imperically, scientifically, verifiably not 90 degrees.
 I think the evidence so far has not pinned down where Chaney is along that line of sight. But I am now adjusting my own measurements which allow Chaney to be much closer to Jfk than I thought before. That is because I now see that while the LOS nails Altgens position, the limo has a slightly different LOS when you place it according to Altgens LOS. I find the reason is the limo was not facing in the exact same direction as the street. The Los of things like the far right headlight with the handhold on the turn,k visible above the light, prove the limo was facing 4 degrees farther North than the direction of the street. The street changes by 4 degree in 20 feet so Greer would only have to take his eyes of the road for a second or two for the limo to be offset by 4 degrees.
 The implication is rotating the limo 4 degrees creates more room for Chaney to get closer to JFK before his handle bar touches the limo. It helps but the problem is Chaney's handle bar would come in contact with the limo at the point where it is alongside JFK. I can't see Chaney ever allowing his handle bar to get closer than 10 inches from the limo at the absolute minimum. That is why I place him back by the bumper.

I merely used the triple underpass as a point to draw the lines.....But I did say the point where the lines intersect  is where Algens was located and in truth the lines could stop at that point....

the problem is Chaney's handle bar would come in contact with the limo at the point where it is alongside JFK.

You're right....Chaney would be alert to keep the left end of his handlebar  away from the Lincoln....BUT his left hand which is gripping the handlebar is visible beside Roy Kellerman's right shoulder.....

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #200 on: October 15, 2018, 01:08:23 AM »


Offline John Mytton

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #201 on: October 15, 2018, 01:32:54 AM »
And where does John Mytton place Chaney in Altgens 6
Still riding the white lane markers  Walk:



Hi Robin, the GIF is irrefutable and put's Chaney in a line with the other bikes, exactly where he was right through Dallas but unfortunately I only had Paul's confusingly arrow riddled version of the later recreation of Altgens 6 and because it's so important I would like to make a cleaner GIF, if you have the original could you post it? Thanks.



JohnM

Offline Chris Bristow

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #202 on: October 15, 2018, 02:17:49 AM »
yup, thanks.

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #202 on: October 15, 2018, 02:17:49 AM »


Online Royell Storing

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #203 on: October 15, 2018, 02:19:44 AM »
Hi Robin, the GIF is irrefutable and put's Chaney in a line with the other bikes, exactly where he was right through Dallas but unfortunately I only had Paul's confusingly arrow riddled version of the later recreation of Altgens 6 and because it's so important I would like to make a cleaner GIF, if you have the original could you post it? Thanks.



JohnM

    Absolutely No "Gif" which uses a Re-Creation to arrive at a conclusion is "irrefutable Proof" of anything. This is why we have so many JFK Urban Legends connected to this unsolved case. For 54+ years people have been making claims and then supporting them with what They brand as "irrefutable Proof".  The above is a perfect case on point. Pure 100% Farmer John Bologna.

Offline Chris Bristow

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #204 on: October 15, 2018, 02:30:17 AM »
Walt, I get your intention now, I will do the LOS.
 Yes Chaney's hand is seen next to Kellerman but he could be next to the limo or farther away along Altgens line of sight. Every single observation made by all of us has not resolved that basic issue of where along the LOS Chaney sits.
I do think because the camera is only one foot above the limo we should see way more of Chaney in the hood. I would think we would see him extend half way to the hood ornament.

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #204 on: October 15, 2018, 02:30:17 AM »


Offline James Hackerott

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #205 on: October 15, 2018, 03:31:51 AM »
I attempted to simulate the Altgens 6 scene, along with a view from Zapruder's POV and as an overhead. Chaney's position was animated from essentially half way embedded into the limo out to 10 feet of perpendicular distance (x) from the limo. For each 1 foot of x there are about 3.9 feet of eastward movement to maintain Altgens LOS. My biggest concern is that after placing the scene in Altgens I need to use Zapruder frame 249 rather that 255. I'm not sure yet how I will resolve this question. For better news, the MC jocky's helmets are rendered bright orange, for visibility, and to  recognize my Houston Astros!!!

201810142053 Chaney Altgens Zapruder Overhead..gif



Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #206 on: October 15, 2018, 04:55:06 AM »
Walt, I get your intention now, I will do the LOS.
 Yes Chaney's hand is seen next to Kellerman but he could be next to the limo or farther away along Altgens line of sight. Every single observation made by all of us has not resolved that basic issue of where along the LOS Chaney sits.
I do think because the camera is only one foot above the limo we should see way more of Chaney in the hood. I would think we would see him extend half way to the hood ornament.

Chaney's hand and fingers could possible correctly proportioned to Roy Kellerman's right arm if Chaney was twenty five or thirty feet away from Kellerman....  Chaney's hand would appear much smaller ( compared to Kellerman's arm) if he was 25 or 30 feet to the rear of Kellerman.

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #206 on: October 15, 2018, 04:55:06 AM »


Offline Chris Bristow

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #207 on: October 15, 2018, 05:25:14 AM »
I attempted to simulate the Altgens 6 scene, along with a view from Zapruder's POV and as an overhead. Chaney's position was animated from essentially half way embedded into the limo out to 10 feet of perpendicular distance (x) from the limo. For each 1 foot of x there are about 3.9 feet of eastward movement to maintain Altgens LOS. My biggest concern is that after placing the scene in Altgens I need to use Zapruder frame 249 rather that 255. I'm not sure yet how I will resolve this question. For better news, the MC jocky's helmets are rendered bright orange, for visibility, and to  recognize my Houston Astros!!!

201810142053 Chaney Altgens Zapruder Overhead..gif

That's a really nice simulation, it takes everything into account. Did you get the initial position of the limo using the lane marker by the front wheel? I ask because it's position is incorrect in the West map by a factor of 6 Z frames. If you align the limo to the lane marker in the West map it pushes the limo back to frame 249.
 According to your map and calculations the bike would have to move backward 8.75 feet from it's starting point. Imbedded 17inches + a 10 inch clearance for safety = 2.25 feet x 3.9 = 8.75 feet backward movement along Altgens los. I think the issue of handle bar clearance is the strongest evidence yet that Chaney is no closer than 3/4 of the way back to the rear. bumper.