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Author Topic: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242  (Read 28972 times)

Online Brian Doyle

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Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #210 on: October 14, 2018, 08:59:23 PM »
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Brian.

They try to say that the motorcyle reflection is seen because the motorcycle is riding "along side" the Limo.
and that any Zapruder frames that show the reflection, but doesn't show the motorcycle proves Alteration to the Zapruder film.

They are wrong.  :D


That's ridiculous...Chaney's motorcycle is not seen because it is well outboard of the limousine and trailing enough to not be seen directly in Zapruder...The limousine side is curved and will show the motorcycle as being nearby when it is actually far out from the limousine...

All said I agree from the Brugioni witnessing that Zapruder is probably altered - not to mention the limo stop...

In the stabilized french slow motion close-up Zapruder video you can see Chaney's antenna directly which tells you where his motorcycle is and it is well outboard like I said...

 

Online Chris Bristow

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #211 on: October 14, 2018, 10:32:11 PM »
Not everyone trusts the maps but maybe doing an LOS using a google Earth image instead of a map would give the real location. I will give that a try.

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #211 on: October 14, 2018, 10:32:11 PM »

Online Chris Bristow

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #212 on: October 14, 2018, 10:54:26 PM »
Brian, I looked at a couple of 'French' enhanced Z films and can't locate anything that would be Chaney's antenna. Could you describe where you see it relative to the Stemmons sign? Could you give a specific frame when it lines up with something like the Stemmons sign poles and let me know if it is just the tip of it or more?
 

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #213 on: October 14, 2018, 10:55:42 PM »
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Not everyone trusts the maps but maybe doing an LOS using a google Earth image instead of a map would give the real location. I will give that a try.

Hooorah...Atta Boy, Chris....  There's not a iota of doubt in my mind that Altgen #6 DOES NOT correspond to Z 255....  I'm totally convinced that Chaney was right there along side the Lincoln when Altgen snapped the shutter.....   If there's some way that you can do a reverse LOS from the three fixed points on the TSBD that are seen in Altgens photo and draw the LOS lines to the triple underpass......That would be very helpful.

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #213 on: October 14, 2018, 10:55:42 PM »

Online Chris Bristow

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #214 on: October 15, 2018, 12:43:00 AM »
Why the triple underpass? You explained to someone earlier that the lines of sight will converge at Altgens location. If we traced 3 LOS back to the underpass they will all fall at different locations since they converge at Altgens they will separate as they go West. I can still do it but why, is there some photographic evidence you are using for comparison?
 I know your opinion on Chaney's position but if you base it on that 90 degree shadow of Chaney you have to be wrong. Angles change a lot when viewed at a shallow angle. So what is actually 90 degrees from above, which is the correct measurement, will change by 40 degrees or so. What I have learned studying perspective vs my own eye is our intuitive understanding when trying to understand the 3d world as portrayed in a 2d picture is totally messed up. What you measure at 90 degrees is absolutely, physically, imperically, scientifically, verifiably not 90 degrees.
 I think the evidence so far has not pinned down where Chaney is along that line of sight. But I am now adjusting my own measurements which allow Chaney to be much closer to Jfk than I thought before. That is because I now see that while the LOS nails Altgens position, the limo has a slightly different LOS when you place it according to Altgens LOS. I find the reason is the limo was not facing in the exact same direction as the street. The Los of things like the far right headlight with the handhold on the turn,k visible above the light, prove the limo was facing 4 degrees farther North than the direction of the street. The street changes by 4 degree in 20 feet so Greer would only have to take his eyes of the road for a second or two for the limo to be offset by 4 degrees.
 The implication is rotating the limo 4 degrees creates more room for Chaney to get closer to JFK before his handle bar touches the limo. It helps but the problem is Chaney's handle bar would come in contact with the limo at the point where it is alongside JFK. I can't see Chaney ever allowing his handle bar to get closer than 10 inches from the limo at the absolute minimum. That is why I place him back by the bumper.
 

Online Chris Bristow

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #215 on: October 15, 2018, 12:59:24 AM »
I figure Altgens camera to be one foot above the hood of the limo and his distance to the hood at 60 feet. That means as the light travels from Chaney, to the hood, to Altgens camera, it  changes in elevation by 4 inches per 20 feet. Chaney could easily be 20 feet away from the limo and still be reflected in it. If we could see what part of Chaney is reflected in the hood it would tell us a lot about his distance, but I can't make out much in that image.

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #215 on: October 15, 2018, 12:59:24 AM »

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #216 on: October 15, 2018, 01:08:23 AM »
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Why the triple underpass? You explained to someone earlier that the lines of sight will converge at Altgens location. If we traced 3 LOS back to the underpass they will all fall at different locations since they converge at Altgens they will separate as they go West. I can still do it but why, is there some photographic evidence you are using for comparison?
 I know your opinion on Chaney's position but if you base it on that 90 degree shadow of Chaney you have to be wrong. Angles change a lot when viewed at a shallow angle. So what is actually 90 degrees from above, which is the correct measurement, will change by 40 degrees or so. What I have learned studying perspective vs my own eye is our intuitive understanding when trying to understand the 3d world as portrayed in a 2d picture is totally messed up. What you measure at 90 degrees is absolutely, physically, imperically, scientifically, verifiably not 90 degrees.
 I think the evidence so far has not pinned down where Chaney is along that line of sight. But I am now adjusting my own measurements which allow Chaney to be much closer to Jfk than I thought before. That is because I now see that while the LOS nails Altgens position, the limo has a slightly different LOS when you place it according to Altgens LOS. I find the reason is the limo was not facing in the exact same direction as the street. The Los of things like the far right headlight with the handhold on the turn,k visible above the light, prove the limo was facing 4 degrees farther North than the direction of the street. The street changes by 4 degree in 20 feet so Greer would only have to take his eyes of the road for a second or two for the limo to be offset by 4 degrees.
 The implication is rotating the limo 4 degrees creates more room for Chaney to get closer to JFK before his handle bar touches the limo. It helps but the problem is Chaney's handle bar would come in contact with the limo at the point where it is alongside JFK. I can't see Chaney ever allowing his handle bar to get closer than 10 inches from the limo at the absolute minimum. That is why I place him back by the bumper.

I merely used the triple underpass as a point to draw the lines.....But I did say the point where the lines intersect  is where Algens was located and in truth the lines could stop at that point....

the problem is Chaney's handle bar would come in contact with the limo at the point where it is alongside JFK.

You're right....Chaney would be alert to keep the left end of his handlebar  away from the Lincoln....BUT his left hand which is gripping the handlebar is visible beside Roy Kellerman's right shoulder.....

Online Brian Doyle

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Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #217 on: October 15, 2018, 01:30:07 AM »
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Brian, I looked at a couple of 'French' enhanced Z films and can't locate anything that would be Chaney's antenna. Could you describe where you see it relative to the Stemmons sign? Could you give a specific frame when it lines up with something like the Stemmons sign poles and let me know if it is just the tip of it or more?


The top of Chaney's antenna is seen in frames 239-240-241-242 just to the left of the Secret Service car's headlight...

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Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #217 on: October 15, 2018, 01:30:07 AM »

Online John Mytton

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #218 on: October 15, 2018, 01:32:54 AM »
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And where does John Mytton place Chaney in Altgens 6
Still riding the white lane markers  Walk:



Hi Robin, the GIF is irrefutable and put's Chaney in a line with the other bikes, exactly where he was right through Dallas but unfortunately I only had Paul's confusingly arrow riddled version of the later recreation of Altgens 6 and because it's so important I would like to make a cleaner GIF, if you have the original could you post it? Thanks.



JohnM

Online John Mytton

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #219 on: October 15, 2018, 02:03:28 AM »
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The top of Chaney's antenna is seen in frames 239-240-241-242 just to the left of the Secret Service car's headlight...





JohnM

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #219 on: October 15, 2018, 02:03:28 AM »

 

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