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Author Topic: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242  (Read 28554 times)

Offline Andrew Mason

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #160 on: October 12, 2018, 10:31:33 PM »
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Regarding Chaney's hand seen through the window.
we can also clearly see the black mans white shirt and black trousers.

Man (1) is atanding on the sidewalk
Altgen 6 / Croft Credit: Martin Hinrichs

Altgens Zoom lense makes things in the backround appear closer than they really are.

The sightline from Altgens to the corner of the concrete pillar east of the lamp post passes over the hood ornament on the front of the limo.  Chaney is north (left) of that.  It seems to me that your drawing has misplaced either Altgens or the limo or both:

There were two motorcycle riders on each side. Chaney and Jackson were to the right (north) side of the motorcade.  In Altgens, we can only see one. Where is the other one? 
We can see a motorcycle front wheel pull up to the side of the president's car in z307 (sprocket area below z307 appears as double exposure at top of z308).  Do we know that that is Chaney? 

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #161 on: October 12, 2018, 10:43:43 PM »
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The sightline from Altgens to the corner of the concrete pillar east of the lamp post passes over the hood ornament on the front of the limo.  Chaney is north (left) of that.  It seems to me that your drawing has misplaced either Altgens or the limo or both:

There were two motorcycle riders on each side. Chaney and Jackson were to the right (north) side of the motorcade.  In Altgens, we can only see one. Where is the other one? 
We can see a motorcycle front wheel pull up to the side of the president's car in z307 (sprocket area below z307 appears as double exposure at top of z308).  Do we know that that is Chaney?

Andrew try reversing that LOS from the center of the third window ( see Elsie Dorman circled) through the west corner of that concrete pylon.....and on to the triple underpass ....   Then do the same starting at the east side of the fourt set of windows and deaw the line through the street light and on to the triple underpass .......The point where the two lines you've drawn meet is where Altgens was standing ....and the place where the first line you drew line would pass through the hood ornament of the Lincoln is where the Lincoln was.    I believe you'll discover that Altgens was in the street in the south traffic lane  north of the "Mary Moorman " location on the plat.   And he was in fact only about 25 feet from the Lincoln.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2018, 10:50:29 PM by Walt Cakebread »

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #161 on: October 12, 2018, 10:43:43 PM »

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #162 on: October 12, 2018, 10:57:57 PM »
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It's called perspective 101

Many people over the years have fallen into the Altgens 6 perspective trap.

I argued with Cinque for years over the same thing

It's called perspective 101...

Are you sure...It looks like the Boogey  Woogey, Two step, Side step...


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #163 on: October 12, 2018, 11:02:32 PM »
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Andrew try reversing that LOS from the center of the third window ( see Elsie Dorman circled) through the west corner of that concrete pylon.....and on to the triple underpass ....   Then do the same starting at the east side of the fourt set of windows and deaw the line through the street light and on to the triple underpass .......The point where the two lines you've drawn meet is where Altgens was standing ....and the place where the first line you drew line would pass through the hood ornament of the Lincoln is where the Lincoln was.    I believe you'll discover that Altgens was in the street in the south traffic lane  north of the "Mary Moorman " location on the plat.   And he was in fact only about 25 feet from the Lincoln.

I just realized that the tree can be aligned with the east corner of the TSBD entrance and used for a third LOS......

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #163 on: October 12, 2018, 11:02:32 PM »

Offline Chris Bristow

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #164 on: October 12, 2018, 11:47:04 PM »
Walt, YES, I left out the word 'not' which changes the meaning a bit.. So we agree on that. The point about the headlight proving it is close because it would be obscured by the limo if it was farther away, I think , is backwards. Altgens is slightly above the hood looking down to it. So as his line of sight continues past the limo it allows him to see lower and lower as the LOS moves away from the limo. Look at the people behind Chaney, you can see almost all the way down to their feet. The crown of the road may affect this too.

Offline Chris Bristow

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #165 on: October 12, 2018, 11:58:27 PM »
Andrew, all I see in 307 is Hargis and Martin. Chaney's front fender becomes visible at 310 in the extra area below the bottom sprocket hole. But 3 seconds have elapsed since frame 255 which aligns with Alrgens 6 so it does not offer any usable info.

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #165 on: October 12, 2018, 11:58:27 PM »

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #166 on: October 13, 2018, 12:10:10 AM »
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Walt, YES, I left out the word 'not' which changes the meaning a bit.. So we agree on that. The point about the headlight proving it is close because it would be obscured by the limo if it was farther away, I think , is backwards. Altgens is slightly above the hood looking down to it. So as his line of sight continues past the limo it allows him to see lower and lower as the LOS moves away from the limo. Look at the people behind Chaney, you can see almost all the way down to their feet. The crown of the road may affect this too.

I don't like referring to images.....  Not everybody can see what's right in front of them.    ( I think bias distorts their vision)

However The photo itself provides all the information necessary to perform three reverse LOS lines ......Line "A"  from the center of the third set of windows on the second floor of the TSBD south through the west corner of the concrete pylon and on to the triple underpass,  Line "B" starting at the east edge of the fourth set of windows through the street light to the right of the Lincoln and on to the triple underpass....and Line  "C" starting at the east side of the entrance to the TSBD through the tree to the east of the pylon and on to the triple underpass .....    The point  where the three lines meet is where Altgens was standing on the traffic lane on the south side of Elm.... And the spot where Line "A" would pass through the Lincoln Hood ornament is the spot where the Lincoln was when Altgens snapped the photo.

Online John Mytton

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #167 on: October 13, 2018, 12:20:46 AM »
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The Altgens Zoom lens effect must be taken into account when studying the Altgens 6 photo

Note when using the 55mm telephoto lens the pink bottle stays the same size, but the blue bottle appears larger



 Thumb1:.

I'm sure Paul has mucked about with where Altgens was standing and found that putting Chaney right next to the Limo from Altgen's actual position makes a recreation of Altgens 6 impossible so again he's placed his virtual Altgens camera far too close, perhaps even closer than Brehm and son. So from Paul's closer vantage point we naturally see that Chaney is relatively smaller as compared to the Limo and that in Altgens 6 the background in comparison to the Limo becomes more compressed as the camera moves further away.





Quote
The Altgens Zoom lens effect must be taken into account when studying the Altgens 6 photo

 Thumb1: Thumb1:



JohnM
« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 01:40:58 AM by John Mytton »

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #167 on: October 13, 2018, 12:20:46 AM »

Online Royell Storing

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #168 on: October 13, 2018, 05:07:25 AM »

        What did I tell you? Now they are Forced to move Chaney North into the slow lane. They moved him (E)/Backward, and Now they also want move him (N)/toward the Knoll. Just remember when doing this Hokey Pokey with Chaney that the Chism Family with their little kid are standing in the street/slow lane. Chaney was assigned the position closest to the (R) passenger side of the Limo. Jackson was assigned to be on the outside/(R) of Chaney. If Chaney is moved into the slow lane, then Jackson is positioned close to the curb and heading straight at the Chism Family. Chaney's motorcycle headlight continues to be a flat-out killer for the Chaney Movers and Shakers.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 05:15:57 AM by Royell Storing »

Online Royell Storing

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #169 on: October 13, 2018, 05:28:41 AM »
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                 This visual aide is a complete Joke. How wide is the slow lane?
« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 05:32:19 AM by Royell Storing »

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #169 on: October 13, 2018, 05:28:41 AM »

 

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