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Author Topic: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242  (Read 83369 times)

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #96 on: October 09, 2018, 03:15:41 AM »
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I believe the shadow analysis is flawed as I explained which leaves the line of sight. The question is where along that line is Chaney sitting. Paul's two images illustrate an opinion but do not provide any measurements to show that the first image matches the second. Where Chaney is, is  not determined by his position behind the headlamp or hood ornament or in between. That only shows the los he is on not where he sits along that line of sight. it only verifies one coordinate. If you could reproduce Pauls images with and overhead view it would prove your case.
 I am open to considering peoples claims and will give it a fair chance. I would like to ask for you and any other folks interested to take me up on testing the shadow perspective issue for yourselves. It will only take one to two minutes to test it. As I said in that post you only need a protractor or papa and pen. I am confident that we will be on the same page regarding the distortion of perspective after you test it.
 When we look at a picture an assume that something is obvious just because it intuitively looks right it is not scientific. It is not rocket science, that is true, but it is not regular science either. We really suck at trying to evaluate a 2 dimensional image of a 3d world. I never would have guessed that shadow angles can change by over 30 degrees by just stepping back a few feet.
 I think the best argument against Chaney being next to JFK is the bike will not fit there. even if we put Altgens on the curb and not 6 feet into the street the bike just does not fit.

I think the best argument against Chaney being next to JFK is the bike will not fit there. even if we put Altgens on the curb and not 6 feet into the street the bike just does not fit.

Why do you think the motorcycle wouldn't fit?   There is about 16 feet between the right side of the Lincoln and the north curb of Elm street....

Regarding the shadows of the motorcycle officers .....Their shadows fall just a few degrees from perpendicular or 90 degrees from their bodies which are casting the shadows.   

The point is:....the shadow of Chaney's windshield is seen on the surface of ELM street just beyond the car's bumper.....and that means the cycle had to be alongside the car. 

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #96 on: October 09, 2018, 03:15:41 AM »


Offline Chris Bristow

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #97 on: October 09, 2018, 03:58:04 AM »
 What exactly does this wire diagram proof other than the bike position changes as the observers position changes?

Offline Chris Bristow

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #98 on: October 09, 2018, 04:49:38 AM »
 That red line represents Chaney's position. He is somewhere along that line of sight. At each point along that line it also represents his distance from the side of the limo which increases the farther back along the los that he is positioned. That tells us how close his handle bar is from touching the limo. The bike is 38 inches wide so it extends out 17 inches to each side of that red line. At the position near JFK there is less than 17 inches between the line and the limo so his handle bars would hit the limo. He need at least 10 inches clearance between his bike and the limo. He would not fit near JFK, only farther back near the rear bumper.
Regarding shadows, we know the azimuth and we know where the bikes were pointed between 200 and 270. It is simply a fact that the angle of those shadows at Z 255 point more than 60 degrees to the rear at about 140 degrees. The evidence, the azimuth and the direction those bikes were facing, is indisputable. Every other photo of that day verifies the azimuth. Of course you see 90 because of PERSPECTIVE. If you see 90 you can be sure it is other than that because perspective does not allow you to take an accurate measurement. The closer to the ground you are the more angles move towards a horizontal position. That is why it looks closer to 90.
  I mentioned 2 ways you could test your theories that only take a couple of minutes. You should test your observations. You can just take the map and draw a line for the azimuth and another for the direction of the bike. You will see the shadow does not extend out at 90 degrees it is 140! That is another very simple way to test it.

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #98 on: October 09, 2018, 04:49:38 AM »


Online Royell Storing

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #99 on: October 09, 2018, 05:02:27 AM »
Seriously Paul, your camera position is waaay too close, you've got the software and reasonable models so try again and place your camera in Altgens position and let's see what happens.



Here is the panorama from Zapruder's pedestal and we see from left to right, the lamp post from Chris's map, then the Altgens 6 frame and finally on the far right is Altgen's position a few second after he took the shot. Whereas it appears that Paul has his Altgens position closer than Brehm.



Here's Chris's map and this really should have silenced all this Chaney next to the Limo nonsense.



JohnM

              This so called "panorama" depiction from the Z pedestal is hilarious. The distance between Apron Man and the Babushka Lady/Brehms is Atrociously Exaggerated calling into question the placement of all other eyewitnesses depicted on it.

Online Royell Storing

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #100 on: October 09, 2018, 05:07:06 AM »
    Still waiting for someone to explain how we can see the reflection of the Chaney motorcycle on the side of the JFK Limo at Z 233 and Not have the motorcycle positioned next to/alongside the Limo.

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #100 on: October 09, 2018, 05:07:06 AM »


Offline Chris Bristow

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #101 on: October 09, 2018, 07:11:21 AM »
Because the rule of reflections is the angle of incidence equals the angle of reflection. So Z is looking at the side of the limo from a shallow angle of maybe 30 degrees. What he sees in not what is right next to the limo, he sees what is at a 30 degree angle behind the limo. That is more evidence that Chaney was behind JFK.

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #102 on: October 09, 2018, 12:31:08 PM »
    Still waiting for someone to explain how we can see the reflection of the Chaney motorcycle on the side of the JFK Limo at Z 233 and Not have the motorcycle positioned next to/alongside the Limo.

 Thumb1:

Nice pick up, Einstein.

The reflection of the Police bike on the rear of Kennedy's Limo indicates that the Police bike was where it was supposed to be, how about that!




https://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/refln/Lesson-1/The-Law-of-Reflection

JohnM

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #102 on: October 09, 2018, 12:31:08 PM »


Offline Steve Barber

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #103 on: October 09, 2018, 03:43:51 PM »
Thumb1:

Nice pick up, Einstein.

The reflection of the Police bike on the rear of Kennedy's Limo indicates that the Police bike was where it was supposed to be, how about that!




https://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/refln/Lesson-1/The-Law-of-Reflection

JohnM

  I would like to put a team together and try to find the same make and model of the camera and lens that James Altgens was using and go to DP along with a few  staunch conspiracy theorists   who believe that Chaney was beside JFK and "looking right at JFK" in the Altgens picture, along with a few "lone nutters"  so we have a fair number of pros and cons.  There is the actual replica of the limousine already in Dallas, all that's needed is someone on a motorcycle to put this nonsense that Chaney is riding next to JFK, to bed.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 03:49:09 PM by Steve Barber »