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Author Topic: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242  (Read 31096 times)

Online John Mytton

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #40 on: October 05, 2018, 01:20:42 AM »
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Interesting Zapruder GIF John.  :)

Hi Robin yeah, to make any alterations you have to take into account the surrounding frames and then you have to perfectly integrate any changes at a microscopic film grain level and considering Zapruder's film was handheld, then you have to take deal with film blur which is caused by Zapruder himself and independently by the limo, the occupants, the bikes, the people and the scenery which all needs to have the appropriate motion blur applied in each and every direction to effectively sell the image and this level of detail needs to be factored into consecutive frames. Now acknowledging that we need more information than what is available to change each image then I'd really like to know how the alterationists explain how anything at all was altered?



JohnM
« Last Edit: October 05, 2018, 01:35:32 AM by John Mytton »

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #40 on: October 05, 2018, 01:20:42 AM »

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #41 on: October 05, 2018, 01:32:08 AM »

Online Steve Howsley

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #42 on: October 05, 2018, 01:42:51 AM »
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... these guys only had a few days to alter the film. Is it possible to alter 100's of Zapruder frames in a few days?



JohnM

Then there's the even trickier (impossible) exercise in altering the other copies of Zapruder's film to effect consistency across them all and yet all within a few days.

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #42 on: October 05, 2018, 01:42:51 AM »

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #43 on: October 05, 2018, 01:55:02 PM »
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KMA   Stevie ol chum...   Yer desperation is hanging out  like the tongue of an exhausted dog....

"I guess it's lens distortion that makes the shadows seem to point more forward than they actually do."

Now it's "lens distortion"......  Ha,ha,ha,  LOL!! :D

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Notice that the shadow of the front upper tip of the Lincoln's right front fender is clearly visible on the surface of Elm street. ( the shadow of the staff of the American flag is to the rear of the shadow of the fender corner. )  Draw a line from that fender corner shadow up to and through the corner of the fender .

Now notice the shadow that is being cast on the surface of Elm street just beyond the left side of the Lincoln's front bumper.....  and draw a line from that shadow that parallels the line you drew previously....

Does that line pass through the left side of the windshield of Chaney's bike?   Yes?....  Then it is the Windshield that is casting that shadow and it should be obvious that Chaney is ALONGSIDE of the Lincoln.

It's sooooo obvious that the angle of the red line in the photo is much different than the angle of the red line drawn on the drawing that is supposed to depict the location of Chaney and his motorcycle.   

Using the shadow of the right upper edge of the car as base ( and the car is parallel with the street)  The red line is at about 110 degrees .....  That red line on the drawing is at about 162 degrees.....  The artist has attempted to move the motorcycle to the rear by depicting the angle as 162 degrees......

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #44 on: October 06, 2018, 01:36:39 PM »
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It's sooooo obvious that the angle of the red line in the photo is much different than the angle of the red line drawn on the drawing that is supposed to depict the location of Chaney and his motorcycle.   

Using the shadow of the right upper edge of the car as base ( and the car is parallel with the street)  The red line is at about 110 degrees .....  That red line on the drawing is at about 162 degrees.....  The artist has attempted to move the motorcycle to the rear by depicting the angle as 162 degrees......

We know that the shadows of Motorcycle Officers Hargis and Martin fall at nearly 90 degrees to their right ....And the staff of the American flag on the fender also falls at 90 degrees to the Lincoln ..... So the shadow on the surface of Elm street beyond the front bumper falls at 90 degrees to the object that is creating the shadow.... Which is ...The windshield of Chaney's motorcycle.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 02:59:55 PM by Walt Cakebread »

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #44 on: October 06, 2018, 01:36:39 PM »

Offline Nicholas Turner

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #45 on: October 06, 2018, 07:06:57 PM »
If you put a line along the shadow of the front bumper on, Altgens6, then move it upwards, maintaining its angle, then the small shadow lines up with the shadow cast by the front of the car behind. Doesn't that mean Chaney's windshield was level with the front of the car behind?
« Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 07:17:56 PM by Nicholas Turner »

Offline Mark Ulrik

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #46 on: October 06, 2018, 07:18:21 PM »
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We know that the shadows of Motorcycle Officers Hargis and Martin fall at nearly 90 degrees to their right ....And the staff of the American flag on the fender also falls at 90 degrees to the Lincoln ..... So the shadow on the surface of Elm street beyond the front bumper falls at 90 degrees to the object that is creating the shadow.... Which is ...The windshield of Chaney's motorcycle.

Your estimates are completely wrong, Walt. The sun position is known. It's in front and (to a lesser degree) left of the motorcycle officers - not directly to their left. The green lines in my drawing, next to the motorcycles, indicate the direction (and approximate length) of the shadows.

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #46 on: October 06, 2018, 07:18:21 PM »

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #47 on: October 06, 2018, 08:21:04 PM »
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If you put a line along the shadow of the front bumper on, Altgens6, then move it upwards, maintaining its angle, then the small shadow lines up with the shadow cast by the front of the car behind. Doesn't that mean Chaney's windshield was level with the front of the car behind?

LOOK at the photo and think about it.....If Chaney had been beside the right front fender of the QM he would appear behind ( over the right shoulder) of the driver, (William Greer) of the Lincoln in the Altgen's photo.

« Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 08:25:17 PM by Walt Cakebread »

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #47 on: October 06, 2018, 08:21:04 PM »

Offline Nicholas Turner

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #48 on: October 06, 2018, 08:31:02 PM »
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LOOK at the photo and think about it.....If Chaney had been beside the right front fender of the QM he would appear behind ( over the right shoulder) of the driver, (William Greer) of the Lincoln in the Altgen's photo.



That depends on how far to the left of the car he was doesn't it? The people on the side of the road level with the rear car aren't behind Greer.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 08:35:09 PM by Nicholas Turner »

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #49 on: October 06, 2018, 10:07:26 PM »
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That depends on how far to the left of the car he was doesn't it? The people on the side of the road level with the rear car aren't behind Greer.

How do you know where the people on the curb were relative to the Queen Mary?

Notice the woman whose face appears above the American flag.....Wouldn't you agree that she's looking a little to her right and looking directly at JFK ?   A line from that woman to JFK would pass behind Chaney.....   If Chaney were further back and near the RF fender of the QM the line would pass in front of him.   



You'll notice that the shadows of Hargis and Martin are cast slightly to the rear of a right angle (90 degrees)  Their shadows fall at about 10 degrees to the rear of 90 degrees IOW their shadows fall at about 100 degrees.  The same would be true for Chaney......  So IF  Chaney's Shadow fell slightly BEHIND his right side it would not be visible on the surface of Elm street if he was near the fender of the QM.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 10:38:47 PM by Walt Cakebread »

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #49 on: October 06, 2018, 10:07:26 PM »

 

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