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Author Topic: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242  (Read 28500 times)

Offline Larry Trotter

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #180 on: October 13, 2018, 07:03:16 PM »
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Bronson came close to capturing Gloria Calvery because you can see Ernest Brandt and there are a couple of people right of him that are too blurry to make out...One of them has to be Calvery according to their position...

Hopefully we see the same thing when viewing the BronsonStill, as I see, lined up with/near the Limousine windshield, wearing a dark coat and blue head scarf is SharonSimmonsNelsonImage, to viewers right is GloriaJeanneHoltImage, and StellaMaeJacobImage. And continuing left to right, although blurry, but otherwise noted indicative positioning, UnknownLadyImage, UnknownLadyImage, and then LadyImage, aka MsJeanNewmanImage near the tree, then GentlemanImage, aka ErnestBrandtImage, next to GentlemanImage, aka JohnTemplinImage, and if visible next should be GloriaLittleCalveryImage.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 07:09:02 PM by Larry Trotter »

Offline Chris Bristow

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #181 on: October 13, 2018, 10:01:10 PM »
Brian, in 232 we can see the trunk area and Chaney is not there. He has to be farther back as the reflection in the limo indicates. I cannot find any antenna other than of Hargis and Martin. There is something above the Stemmons but it is glare of the windshield of the SS follow up Cadillac.

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #181 on: October 13, 2018, 10:01:10 PM »

Online Brian Doyle

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Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #182 on: October 13, 2018, 10:04:38 PM »
You have to view the zoomed-in Zapruder to see it...It is clearly visible in the french stabilized slow motion Zapruder...I would estimate it puts Chaney and his motorcycle equal to the rear trunk...

Offline Chris Bristow

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #183 on: October 13, 2018, 10:23:18 PM »
Chaney enters a few frames after the start of the Elm St. sequence. It is a blurry mess but you can trace Chaney backwards to find him at the start. Here is a short video I did on a related issue and shows Chaney entering and tracks him for a few frames. The copy of the video does not have any text or audio with it, it is not public.  It can be confusing because there is a stationary image on Newman's blouse that looks just like the image of Chaney's head/helmet and Chaney rides right into it and merges with it. A strange anomaly for sure, but if you track Chaney, and then Jackson a few frames later, you find the image on Newman's blouse is neither of them.

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #183 on: October 13, 2018, 10:23:18 PM »

Offline Chris Bristow

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #184 on: October 13, 2018, 10:40:34 PM »
To address Roy's original point I have a simple thought experiment. First, I think because we can see the surface of the hood it means that Altgens camera was slightly above the hood level looking down to it. If that is true then Altgens line of side was downward. It will of course continue on a straight line so when it passes the limo it has to continue downward. That means we would see more and more of the headlight as it moves farther from the limo, not less of it.
If you look over the hood at the people behind Chaney you can see that we see them all the way down below the knee. Actually if you look at the women right in from of the limo you can see the hood lines up with their shin. Add 6 inches for the curb and it still only aligns  with their thighs. Those thighs are not higher than the hood unless they are maybe 9 feet tall. That is proof the line of sight goes downward and reveals more of the headlight not less.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 10:46:18 PM by Chris Bristow »

Offline Robin Unger

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #185 on: October 14, 2018, 12:51:37 AM »
Paul

You do realize that you have just "CONFIRMED" what i have been saying .

you have the tip of Chaneys front tire and the tip of the queen marys front tire in line across Elm st.  :)



« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 12:55:02 AM by Robin Unger »

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #185 on: October 14, 2018, 12:51:37 AM »

Offline Chris Davidson

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #186 on: October 14, 2018, 01:35:38 AM »
Paul,
No, that would not include the door-handles according to the schematic.
Even though JFK was somewhat of a moving obstacle within the limo, he was the mark used (WC manipulated of course) for plotting.

Offline Robin Unger

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #187 on: October 14, 2018, 02:17:13 AM »

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #187 on: October 14, 2018, 02:17:13 AM »

Offline Chris Bristow

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #188 on: October 14, 2018, 02:19:09 AM »
Paul, your photo does seem to match the Altgens line of sight and so we should be able to tell which lane markers you are pointing to for the limo and Chaney's positions. Doesn't Altgens line of sight show Chaney's lane marker to be the one behind the limo marker when you plot it on a map from Altgens LOS? In fact Altgens photo does not show the Thornton sign so the lane marker next to the limo marker is not even visible in the picture.  It has to be the one behind it.
By the way the plat map puts the limo lane marker in the correct position but the West map does not. The limo marker was offset from it partner and started about 6 further down Elm.


Offline Chris Bristow

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #189 on: October 14, 2018, 03:18:52 AM »
Yes the West map has some errors proven by overhead photos from the time. Not all of the maps are wrong so one has to be. West is the inconsistent one but a quick search of 'overhead delay plaza' will give some images taken weeks after. So yes the map is wrong.
How do you trust counting lines you can barley see and why do you trust that over the overhead LOS. We can see 4 of 5 on the right but the left side is a guess. Don't guess just look at the line of sight. If you disagree with the LOS the try to do your own. But you will not be able to figure a line of sight that puts the partner for number 5(Limo front wheel) in the frame. Also the fact that the Thornton sign is not in the frame means that lane marker CANNOT be. That is literal proof that your Chaney marker is the 4th set.
 But that alone does not prove Robin's point. Chaney could still be closer to the camera along that line of sight. He could be just beyond/behind the lane marker or on the camera side.

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Re: Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242
« Reply #189 on: October 14, 2018, 03:18:52 AM »

 

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