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Author Topic: "Out with Bill Shelley in front"  (Read 11674 times)

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: "Out with Bill Shelley in front"
« Reply #50 on: October 12, 2018, 10:38:37 PM »
You are aggressive asking questions in order to avoid answering what I previously posted...In her signed statement they did not change Carolyn Arnold's 12:25 time...She was pretty sure she told them lunch room in both statements so some trickery is involved and FBI cannot be trusted straight like you gullibly do...

In Arnold's signed statement (CE 1381, p. 7), she doesn't mention the Oswald encounter at all.  So, no, it's nothing like Stanton.

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So either Stanton was gotten to and did not enter her seeing Oswald on her reports, or she omitted it in order not to get involved, or FBI altered it and left it out...

It's not a matter of omission.  Stanton signed the statement saying "I did not see Lee Harvey Oswald at that time or at any time during that day".

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You are aggressively asking disingenuous questions in order to avoid the fact Carolyn Arnold corroborates Stanton's seeing Oswald by the lunch room shortly before the assassination...That gives it veracity...We already have evidence of FBI altering witnessing of Oswald being in the lunch room...

There's nothing disingenuous or aggressive about the facts.  Stanton's sighting is hearsay and contradicts her signed statement.  That doesn't apply to Arnold.

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Re: "Out with Bill Shelley in front"
« Reply #50 on: October 12, 2018, 10:38:37 PM »


Online Brian Doyle

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"Out with Bill Shelley in front"
« Reply #51 on: October 13, 2018, 12:40:59 AM »
What has more weight is two direct witnesses to Oswald either being right outside of or in the 2nd floor lunch room insisting FBI did not record their witnessing accurately, or in Stanton's case telling a story that is seriously different than what FBI recorded...If you have one it could be a mistaken or eccentric witness but with two there's a clear pattern of malfeasance...But in this case you don't really have one because of the rest of the documented trickery by FBI elsewhere not to mention Carolyn Arnold's somewhat reliable personal character...

You've been asked to produce the actual signature and you can't...I think FBI is lying because of the seriousness of what Stanton witnessed...Unlike yourself I spoke directly to Stanton's relatives and they said she was not the type to fabricate such a thing...I'd love to see you accuse Sarah of lying to those relatives faces...

You're an obvious obnoxious nitpicker and excuse-maker...

The reason you're full of it is because Stanton's story contains details that any detective would see right away...It contains reasoning that fits psychological profiling...Stanton was socially marginalized because of her obesity...She saw what she thought was another marginalized loner in Oswald and sought to reach out to him lest he miss the motorcade...Too many specific details for a fabricated story...Plus we have FBI caught covering-up elsewhere with a motive that you give yourself the right to ignore while hand-waving "hearsay"...
   
« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 12:48:24 AM by Brian Doyle »

Offline Mark A. Oblazney

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Re: "Out with Bill Shelley in front"
« Reply #52 on: October 15, 2018, 03:00:45 PM »
What has more weight is two direct witnesses to Oswald either being right outside of or in the 2nd floor lunch room insisting FBI did not record their witnessing accurately, or in Stanton's case telling a story that is seriously different than what FBI recorded...If you have one it could be a mistaken or eccentric witness but with two there's a clear pattern of malfeasance...But in this case you don't really have one because of the rest of the documented trickery by FBI elsewhere not to mention Carolyn Arnold's somewhat reliable personal character...

You've been asked to produce the actual signature and you can't...I think FBI is lying because of the seriousness of what Stanton witnessed...Unlike yourself I spoke directly to Stanton's relatives and they said she was not the type to fabricate such a thing...I'd love to see you accuse Sarah of lying to those relatives faces...

You're an obvious obnoxious nitpicker and excuse-maker...

The reason you're full of it is because Stanton's story contains details that any detective would see right away...It contains reasoning that fits psychological profiling...Stanton was socially marginalized because of her obesity...She saw what she thought was another marginalized loner in Oswald and sought to reach out to him lest he miss the motorcade...Too many specific details for a fabricated story...Plus we have FBI caught covering-up elsewhere with a motive that you give yourself the right to ignore while hand-waving "hearsay"...
   
You'e got a problem, Albert........ and it's not us.   So many words with so little said.  It's as if you're........ talking to yourself.  Name all the people that are on 'your side', Albert.  Go on.........  I double-dog dare ya' !!!

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Re: "Out with Bill Shelley in front"
« Reply #52 on: October 15, 2018, 03:00:45 PM »


Online Brian Doyle

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"Out with Bill Shelley in front"
« Reply #53 on: October 15, 2018, 09:52:14 PM »
You'e got a problem, Albert........ and it's not us.   So many words with so little said.  It's as if you're........ talking to yourself.  Name all the people that are on 'your side', Albert.  Go on.........  I double-dog dare ya' !!!

You first Mark...You're obviously avoiding answering what I already wrote above...It is my position that you do not possess the intelligence or skill to do so...

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: "Out with Bill Shelley in front"
« Reply #54 on: October 15, 2018, 11:40:20 PM »
You first Mark...You're obviously avoiding answering what I already wrote above...It is my position that you do not possess the intelligence or skill to do so...

And it's this kind of arrogant narcissistic crap that gets you banned from forums.

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Re: "Out with Bill Shelley in front"
« Reply #54 on: October 15, 2018, 11:40:20 PM »


Offline Rob Caprio

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Re: "Out with Bill Shelley in front"
« Reply #55 on: October 16, 2018, 12:06:08 AM »
Stanton signed it, Brian.  That's what "/s/" means.

The FBI altered a statement that Carolyn Arnold signed?  Do tell.

This is from ny "Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions" series. The key point IMO is that the FBI altered what she stated and not if her statement was signed or not. The FBI repeatedly did this in this case.

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This is why, as I brought to light in Photographic Whitewash (pages 210-11) in early 1967, the Commission's OWN files REVEAL THE PROOF that Mrs. R.E. (Carolyn) Arnold told the FBI that SHE HAD SEEN OSWALD on the FIRST FLOOR that day AT 12:25 P.M.!

Aware of the import, when the FBI interviewed her on November 26, four days after the assassination, it MISTIMED what she said, stating INCORRECTLY that it was a "few minutes BEFORE 12:15 P.M." that she saw Oswald.

When in March, 1964, the Commission asked the FBI to interview all employees in that building and asked them to respond to five Commission questions, Mrs. Arnold STATED THE TIME WAS "AT ABOUT 12:25 P.M."

In taking those March statements the FBI agents who asked the questions wrote out in longhand on yellowpads what they then asked the witnesses to sign. Still acutely aware of the meaning of what Mrs. Arnold said, that she SAW OSWALD ON THE FIRST FLOOR, "between the front door and the double doors to the warehouse," in the handwritten statement the FBI then asked her to sign it again MISTATED the time. The statement SET THE TIME she gave INCORRECTLY still again, placing it at "12:25 A.M."! SHE CORRECTED THIS IN HER OWN HANDWRITING.

The FBI then typed these handwritten statements for the Commission. In even its typed form, in facsimile on page 211 of that third of my books, it is APPARENT that the time was CHANGED from A.M. TO P.M. The "P.M." is the ONLY typing on that full page that is OUT OF LINE. It is considerably above the line, as happened with the typewriters of those days when what is typed is REMOVED and then PLACED BACK in the typewriter.

Harold Weisberg, Case Open, Carroll & Graf, 1994, pages 122-23 (Emphasis mine)

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« Last Edit: October 16, 2018, 12:09:23 AM by Rob Caprio »

Online Brian Doyle

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"Out with Bill Shelley in front"
« Reply #56 on: October 16, 2018, 03:57:13 AM »
Rubbish Rob...You conveniently omitted the part where Carolyn Arnold emphatically insisted to Earl Golz that she never told FBI 1st floor...She said the claim was nonsense and she never said it...She added that there was no reason for her to turn around and look back in the Depository...FBI fabricated 1st floor and altered Carolyn Arnold's real statement where she said she saw Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room because it was a highly dangerous witnessing that revealed where Oswald really was during the shooting...FBI altered the time to 12:15 because it gave Oswald time to get back upstairs to shoot JFK...Once Carolyn Arnold was in charge of her own statement she entered the real 12:25, which is what she told Golz that you failed to accurately relay...

If you listen to my interview with Sarah Stanton's relatives it is clear that Stanton ran in to Oswald outside the lunch room on the 2nd floor staircase landing...This corroborates Carolyn Arnold's location and time for seeing Oswald as she told Golz...There's a reason why every single Prayer Man believer ignores my new discovery to a man...They are inversely telling you all you need to know by doing that...

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"Out with Bill Shelley in front"
« Reply #56 on: October 16, 2018, 03:57:13 AM »


Offline Rob Caprio

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Re: "Out with Bill Shelley in front"
« Reply #57 on: October 16, 2018, 06:12:22 PM »
Rubbish Rob...You conveniently omitted the part where Carolyn Arnold emphatically insisted to Earl Golz that she never told FBI 1st floor...She said the claim was nonsense and she never said it...She added that there was no reason for her to turn around and look back in the Depository...FBI fabricated 1st floor and altered Carolyn Arnold's real statement where she said she saw Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room because it was a highly dangerous witnessing that revealed where Oswald really was during the shooting...FBI altered the time to 12:15 because it gave Oswald time to get back upstairs to shoot JFK...Once Carolyn Arnold was in charge of her own statement she entered the real 12:25, which is what she told Golz that you failed to accurately relay...

First of all, I didn't write anything as it was a quote from Weisberg's book "Open Case". Secondly, where she saw LHO (1st or 2nd floor) isn't as important as the time as LHO couldn't have made it to the 6th floor and do the things that he needed to do if he was seen at 12:25.

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If you listen to my interview with Sarah Stanton's relatives it is clear that Stanton ran in to Oswald outside the lunch room on the 2nd floor staircase landing...This corroborates Carolyn Arnold's location and time for seeing Oswald as she told Golz...There's a reason why every single Prayer Man believer ignores my new discovery to a man...They are inversely telling you all you need to know by doing that...

Again, the exact location isn't as important as the time. There was an easy way to get from the 1st and 2nd floor so this is not an issue. The issue is if he was seen anywhere besides the 6th floor at 12:25, and he was, then the official theory is false.

Do you agree with anyone beyond John Armstrong?

Online Brian Doyle

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"Out with Bill Shelley in front"
« Reply #58 on: October 16, 2018, 06:22:05 PM »
First of all, I didn't write anything as it was a quote from Weisberg's book "Open Case". Secondly, where she saw LHO (1st or 2nd floor) isn't as important as the time as LHO couldn't have made it to the 6th floor and do the things that he needed to do if he was seen at 12:25.

Again, the exact location isn't as important as the time. There was an easy way to get from the 1st and 2nd floor so this is not an issue. The issue is if he was seen anywhere besides the 6th floor at 12:25, and he was, then the official theory is false.

Do you agree with anyone beyond John Armstrong?

Pure ignorance...The precise interpretation of FBI's lies is critically important to understanding where Oswald actually was during the shooting...I think he was in the 2nd floor lunch room where Carolyn Arnold actually did see him and FBI needed to change her testimony to hide...Weisberg wasn't up to speed on the full present knowledge we have now and he did not know about what Sarah Stanton's relatives told me...

You don't seem to grasp the wrong you have done here...You have validated an FBI lie and failed to detect the reason for that lie...That's what the Prayer Man people do...Oswald was not "Out with Bill Shelley in front"...He was almost certainly in the 2nd floor lunch room where Carolyn Arnold saw him...

Baker was lacking detail in his affidavit exactly because Oswald's real location in the lunch room went against the official story...

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"Out with Bill Shelley in front"
« Reply #58 on: October 16, 2018, 06:22:05 PM »


Offline Rob Caprio

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Re: "Out with Bill Shelley in front"
« Reply #59 on: October 16, 2018, 11:17:48 PM »
Pure ignorance...The precise interpretation of FBI's lies is critically important to understanding where Oswald actually was during the shooting...I think he was in the 2nd floor lunch room where Carolyn Arnold actually did see him and FBI needed to change her testimony to hide...Weisberg wasn't up to speed on the full present knowledge we have now and he did not know about what Sarah Stanton's relatives told me...

You don't seem to grasp the wrong you have done here...You have validated an FBI lie and failed to detect the reason for that lie...That's what the Prayer Man people do...Oswald was not "Out with Bill Shelley in front"...He was almost certainly in the 2nd floor lunch room where Carolyn Arnold saw him...

Baker was lacking detail in his affidavit exactly because Oswald's real location in the lunch room went against the official story...

I give up. I actually posted the Weisberg quote to show that the FBI repeatedly altered Arnold's statement, but that isn't good enough for you. You have a really odd outlook on what's important. LHO being on the first or second floor shows that he wasn't the assassin, but this isn't good enough for you.

Weisberg, along with other researchers, showed that the FBI altered witnesses' statements, but this isn't good enough for you. I have pointed out that Baker stopped no one else so why did he stop LHO supposedly in a lunchroom? I said that this points to a frame up of LHO, but this isn't good enough for you.

I have pointed out how Truly said that LHO was okay in the lunchroom, but then grew quickly of him supposedly in short order for no reason. This isn't good enough for you. I have pointed out that NO roll call ever took place as claimed, but this isn't good enough for you. I have pointed out how Truly didn't feel compelled to alert the police about any other employee supposedly missing which again shows that LHO was setup, but this isn't good enough for you.

I have pointed out how LHO was hired in one day when the TSBD had laid off other people and they weren't in their busy season which shows LHO was setup, but this isn't good enough for you. Etc....

What have you done to call others ignorant? You seem to be a person who isn't that aware of the evidence all the while acting superior to others.

Spell it out. How did Armstrong break the case open when it was clear in 1963/1964 that a conspiracy was involved in the murder of JFK? Do tell.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2018, 11:19:47 PM by Rob Caprio »

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Re: "Out with Bill Shelley in front"
« Reply #59 on: October 16, 2018, 11:17:48 PM »