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Author Topic: In 54 years has it ever been proven that CE399 is the bullet found at Parkland?  (Read 2812 times)

Online Martin Weidmann

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If you don't doubt that CE399 was fired from C2766: How was Oswald's Carcano rifle obtained from the Paine's garage and put back there?

Easy stuff like: Who, When etc?

Can you show that the rifle now in evidence as C2766 was ever stored in Ruth Paine's garage?

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Online Martin Weidmann

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That's a devil of a challenge, John.  >:(

Good to see you are still using my "ODIA" acronym. Oswald did it... alone.

I know it's hard for you to accept this fact: The ballistic tests that link CE399 to C2766 "to the exclusion of all other weapons" is sufficient to confirm that the "almost whole" missile is one of the three shots fired from the SE corner of the TSBD at President Kennedy.

To successfully challenge that fact requires "supporting evidence". Some sort of plausible narrative with names, places and times will do.

The ballistic tests that link CE399 to C2766 "to the exclusion of all other weapons" is sufficient to confirm that the "almost whole" missile is one of the three shots fired from the SE corner of the TSBD at President Kennedy. 

Nope. Not even close! The ballistic tests only show that CE399 was fired by C2766... That's it! Everything else is your imagination.

Online Ross Lidell

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The ballistic tests that link CE399 to C2766 "to the exclusion of all other weapons" is sufficient to confirm that the "almost whole" missile is one of the three shots fired from the SE corner of the TSBD at President Kennedy. 

Nope. Not even close! The ballistic tests only show that CE399 was fired by C2766... That's it! Everything else is your imagination.

You're wrong! Apart from the Warren Commission Report: Joseph D. Nichol (Superintendent of the Bureau of Criminal Investigation for the State Of Illinois) was interviewed by CBS for the 1967 Investigation into the Warren Report.


Walter Lister CBS: "In the case of the virtually intact bullet that was found on a stretcher in Parkland Hospital and the two fairly sizeable fragments found in the front of the Presidential limousine: you felt that those were definitely fired from Oswald's rifle"?

Joseph D. Nichol: "Yes sir".

Walter Lister CBS: "To the exclusion of all others"?
 
Joseph D. Nichol: "To the exclusion of all others - right".

Nichol's statement trumps YOUR imagination.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 07:33:57 AM by Ross Lidell »

Online Ross Lidell

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Can you show that the rifle now in evidence as C2766 was ever stored in Ruth Paine's garage?

From Wikipedia: Marina Oswald Porter

Marina learned of the assassination of President Kennedy from the media coverage of the event, and later, of the arrest of her husband. That afternoon, Dallas Police Department detectives arrived at the Paine household, and when asked if Lee owned a rifle, she gestured to the garage, where Oswald stored his rifle rolled up in a blanket; no rifle was found.

In case you get all cute and suggest the incident proves that the rifle was not in the garage: Marina expected it to be there!!!

In case you try to be even cuter and claim it was some other rifle: The rifle (C2766) in the national archives in Washington is the same one in the backyard photos taken at 214 W. Neely Street Dallas in late March of 1963.

Marina Oswald testified twice that she took the photos of Lee Oswald holding the rifle:

1.) The Warren Commission - 1964
2.) The House Select Committee on Assassinations - 1978

The rifle was taken from Dallas to New Orleans in Ruth Paine's station wagon and returned to the suburb of Irving in Dallas where it lay in a blanket in Paine's garage. Only a "confirmed" contrarian would believe that C2766 was never in the Paine's garage.



Online Martin Weidmann

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You're wrong! Apart from the Warren Commission Report: Joseph D. Nichol (Superintendent of the Bureau of Criminal Investigation for the State Of Illinois) was interviewed by CBS for the 1967 Investigation into the Warren Report.


Walter Lister CBS: "In the case of the virtually intact bullet that was found on a stretcher in Parkland Hospital and the two fairly sizeable fragments found in the front of the Presidential limousine: you felt that those were definitely fired from Oswald's rifle"?

Joseph D. Nichol: "Yes sir".

Walter Lister CBS: "To the exclusion of all others"?
 
Joseph D. Nichol: "To the exclusion of all others - right".

Nichol's statement trumps YOUR imagination.

What am I wrong about? Nichol merely confirms exactly what I said; that CE399 was fired by C2766

What Nichol does not confirm is that CE399 "is one of the three shots fired from the SE corner of the TSBD at President Kennedy." which is what you incorrectly claimed! 

By the way, this question;

Walter Lister CBS: "In the case of the virtually intact bullet that was found on a stretcher in Parkland Hospital and the two fairly sizeable fragments found in the front of the Presidential limousine: you felt that those were definitely fired from Oswald's rifle"?

is extremely loaded as it assumes as fact that "the virtually intact bullet [i.e. CE399]" was indeed found at Parkland Hospital when there is no evidence to support that claim. The assumption that "two fairly sizeable fragments" were found in the limousine, when in fact they were handed to the FBI experts, upon their arrival at the Secret Service garage, by somebody who just claimed they were found in the limo. No photographs of the fragments in situ are available. And thirdly, it assumes that C2766 indeed is Oswald's rifle when the evidence for that is questionable.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 02:03:12 AM by Martin Weidmann »

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Online Martin Weidmann

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From Wikipedia: Marina Oswald Porter

Marina learned of the assassination of President Kennedy from the media coverage of the event, and later, of the arrest of her husband. That afternoon, Dallas Police Department detectives arrived at the Paine household, and when asked if Lee owned a rifle, she gestured to the garage, where Oswald stored his rifle rolled up in a blanket; no rifle was found.

In case you get all cute and suggest the incident proves that the rifle was not in the garage: Marina expected it to be there!!!

In case you try to be even cuter and claim it was some other rifle: The rifle (C2766) in the national archives in Washington is the same one in the backyard photos taken at 214 W. Neely Street Dallas in late March of 1963.

Marina Oswald testified twice that she took the photos of Lee Oswald holding the rifle:

1.) The Warren Commission - 1964
2.) The House Select Committee on Assassinations - 1978

The rifle was taken from Dallas to New Orleans in Ruth Paine's station wagon and returned to the suburb of Irving in Dallas where it lay in a blanket in Paine's garage. Only a "confirmed" contrarian would believe that C2766 was never in the Paine's garage.

You don't get it.

It doesn't matter that Marina believed there was a rifle in Ruth Paine's garage or that Marina expected it to be there on 11/22/63. Marina testified she looked in the blanket only once, one week after she moved from New Orleans to Irving. This would roughly be the last week of September 1963. After that, Marina never looked in the package again and only assumed there was still a rifle there. In fact there may well have been a rifle there at some point but that does not automatically prove that it was the rifle now in evidence as C2766. Even worse, on Friday night 11/22/63 Marina was shown C2766 and she could not confirm it was the rifle she had seen in the blanket.


In case you try to be even cuter and claim it was some other rifle: The rifle (C2766) in the national archives in Washington is the same one in the backyard photos taken at 214 W. Neely Street Dallas in late March of 1963.

Really? Is there a number stamped in the rifle which is visible in the photos? Or are we playing the subjective "the lines and markings are the same" game again?

The rifle was taken from Dallas to New Orleans in Ruth Paine's station wagon and returned to the suburb of Irving in Dallas where it lay in a blanket in Paine's garage.


So now you can prove that the rifle allegedly transported by Ruth Paine was in fact the rifle now in evidence as C2766? Well.. go ahead and prove it.

Only a "confirmed" contrarian would believe that C2766 was never in the Paine's garage.

Oh no, you don't get to turn this around. You claim C2766 was stored in Ruth Paine's garage, so you have to prove it! Just because you believe it doesn't make it a fact!
« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 03:34:05 AM by Martin Weidmann »

Offline Mike Orr

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Offline Rob Caprio

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Where are the SBT experts on this?

Where are the "SBFers" Jon? Some of the LNers claim that it is a fact so this should be easy for them. Right?

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Offline Rob Caprio

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It's as much a truly sad state of affairs as highly revealing about their lack of confidence in their own arguments that, so far, no LN has had the guts to even try and show that the bullet now known as CE399 was ever at Parkland Hospital!

How can you have a SBT when you can't even demonstrate the authenticity of the most important bullet in that tale?

If you had a poll attached they would most likely have voted that they provided evidence for CE 399 being found even though they didn't.

Offline Rob Caprio

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That's a devil of a challenge, John.  >:(

Good to see you are still using my "ODIA" acronym. Oswald did it... alone.

I know it's hard for you to accept this fact: The ballistic tests that link CE399 to C2766 "to the exclusion of all other weapons" is sufficient to confirm that the "almost whole" missile is one of the three shots fired from the SE corner of the TSBD at President Kennedy.

To successfully challenge that fact requires "supporting evidence". Some sort of plausible narrative with names, places and times will do.

This is why it is incumbent upon you to show that CE 399 was actually found at PH. Well?

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