Ruthie Paine's Confusing Calendar

Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Author Topic: Ruthie Paine's Confusing Calendar  (Read 10757 times)

Online Walt Cakebread

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7178
Re: Ruthie Paine's Confusing Calendar
« Reply #280 on: July 04, 2022, 06:09:05 PM »


          ó Fire Engineering, 1948

    RED CIRCLES TO FACILITATE RESCUE

        The red circle will show the way in and out of Syracuseís burning buildings.
     Fire Chief William J. Connelly has announced that red circles will be painted
     shortly on upper-floor windows of factories, warehouses and other business
     places.

        According to press accounts furnished Fire Engineering by James R. Jackson,
     Oswego, N. Y., the circle will indicate the window opens into an aisle or passage-
     way which will give firemen easy access to fight flames or effect rescues.

        Persons trapped inside a particular building will know that any window bearing
     the red circle will be the first place from which they will be rescued.

        The details of painting the red circles on windows, Chief Connelly said, are in
     the hands of Lieut. John Dacey of the fire prevention bureau. Each circle will
     measure eight or more inches in diameter, depending upon the size of the window.

        Employers and employes alike, the reports say, have agreed to keep
     free of obstructions all aisles leading to red circled windows.

Circles not limited to WWII bombing nor one-per-floor.

Thank you for posting the information from Oswego NY .....  Dallas may have been similar .

The idea originated in the early Years of WWII.....

Arguing that there was more than one escape route per floor simply reveals your desperation.

Depending on the size of the building there may have been more than one window designated as an escape window....But that wouldn't have applied to the relatively small TSBD, in which it was less than 100 feet across the room.  If you believe that Lee traveled from the SE corner of the sixth floor to the 2nd floor lunchroom in 90 seconds then a person could cross the room in about ten seconds.

PS....  The red ring plan was to designate an escape route for buildings that had no fire escape ...

The TSBD had a fire escape......
« Last Edit: July 04, 2022, 07:18:18 PM by Walt Cakebread »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Ruthie Paine's Confusing Calendar
« Reply #280 on: July 04, 2022, 06:09:05 PM »

Online Jerry Organ

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1914
  • Halifax - Canada
Re: Ruthie Paine's Confusing Calendar
« Reply #281 on: July 05, 2022, 08:12:05 AM »
Thank you for posting the information from Oswego NY .....  Dallas may have been similar .

The idea originated in the early Years of WWII.....

Arguing that there was more than one escape route per floor simply reveals your desperation.

I see. Fire will respect any "Fire Escape Route" Map that gets pinned up. It won't start in or burn to certain areas. LOL. Your "one escape route per floor" notion.

Quote
Depending on the size of the building there may have been more than one window designated as an escape window....But that wouldn't have applied to the relatively small TSBD, in which it was less than 100 feet across the room.  If you believe that Lee traveled from the SE corner of the sixth floor to the 2nd floor lunchroom in 90 seconds then a person could cross the room in about ten seconds.

I would think warehouse-type buildings that have long corridors with high stacks of books on each side might benefit from multiple designated window exits.

Quote
PS....  The red ring plan was to designate an escape route for buildings that had no fire escape ...

The TSBD had a fire escape......

There's no indication red-circle symbols couldn't be used in buildings with an external fire escape. What if the window that allowed you to step onto the fire escape was itself in flames or made impassible from smoke rising from the window below? Then you head for the back stairs and it's filled with smoke. So now you head for a window with a red circle. The firemen don't have to put ladders up to every window with a red circle; just the one where they see people at.

I think the practice of using using red-circles for fifth-floor and similar levels died out when ladder-trucks that could reach higher (they get up to 90' or so now) began to be produced.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Ruthie Paine's Confusing Calendar
« Reply #281 on: July 05, 2022, 08:12:05 AM »

Offline Jerry Freeman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3711
  • Skeptic
Re: Ruthie Paine's Confusing Calendar
« Reply #282 on: July 05, 2022, 08:16:37 AM »
What if the fire escape cannot be reached-----?

Quote
This red rectangular marking on the windows of buildings shows the window from where fire brigade or rescue crew can enter the building in case of a fire or other emergency. The fire prevention law requires installing the emergency entrance to the floors of over 3rd story and under 30 meters high. The windows with the mark have a latch to be opened from outside.
Quote
They are easy access windows that open from the outside so that fire fighters can easily enter a building. These fire windows are marked with a red triagle so that firefighters can quickly identify them. Most modern apartments and offices have one. Mine has a special latch that can be opened by firemen without being broken but as another user explained, sometimes it just marks windows that donít have reenforced glass and can be broken.
https://www.quora.com/What-do-the-red-triangles-on-the-buildings-windows-in-Japan-mean

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Ruthie Paine's Confusing Calendar
« Reply #282 on: July 05, 2022, 08:16:37 AM »

Online Walt Cakebread

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7178
Re: Ruthie Paine's Confusing Calendar
« Reply #283 on: July 05, 2022, 05:58:54 PM »
I see. Fire will respect any "Fire Escape Route" Map that gets pinned up. It won't start in or burn to certain areas. LOL. Your "one escape route per floor" notion.

I would think warehouse-type buildings that have long corridors with high stacks of books on each side might benefit from multiple designated window exits.

There's no indication red-circle symbols couldn't be used in buildings with an external fire escape. What if the window that allowed you to step onto the fire escape was itself in flames or made impassible from smoke rising from the window below? Then you head for the back stairs and it's filled with smoke. So now you head for a window with a red circle. The firemen don't have to put ladders up to every window with a red circle; just the one where they see people at.

I think the practice of using using red-circles for fifth-floor and similar levels died out when ladder-trucks that could reach higher (they get up to 90' or so now) began to be produced.

The firemen don't have to put ladders up to every window with a red circle; just the one where they see people at.

So.....Referring to Dillard's photo on page 206 of Groden's TKOAP.....There are three red rings on the south side of the sixth floor .... Those rings are in adjacent windows about 15 feet apart.     Since that floor of the TSBD was just warehouse space and one big room ....   What would your explanation be for placing those three red rings in adjacent windows?

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Ruthie Paine's Confusing Calendar
« Reply #283 on: July 05, 2022, 05:58:54 PM »

Online Walt Cakebread

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7178
Re: Ruthie Paine's Confusing Calendar
« Reply #284 on: July 05, 2022, 09:34:32 PM »
What if the fire escape cannot be reached-----?
https://www.quora.com/What-do-the-red-triangles-on-the-buildings-windows-in-Japan-mean


There is a color photo of the TSBD on page 105 of Groden's  The Search for LHO and there are no red rings on the windows.....   Why were the red rings removed??

The Warren Commission knew about those red rings and swept them under the rug.   They were smart enough to avoid opening that "can-o-worms" .....  But Mr "Smith" isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer and he wants to kick the sleeping dog, rather than leave the sleeping dog alone.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Ruthie Paine's Confusing Calendar
« Reply #284 on: July 05, 2022, 09:34:32 PM »

Online Walt Cakebread

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7178
Re: Ruthie Paine's Confusing Calendar
« Reply #285 on: July 16, 2022, 09:39:24 PM »
At the top of Mrs Paine's calendar March 1963 [CE 401] there is a star and a note 'LHO purchase of rifle'. This calendar was confiscated in a search.
Ruth Paine testified that she had no idea Oswald had acquired a rifle and that it had been supposedly  wrapped up in a blanket lying on the floor of her garage [all that time]....at least not until November 22 when police came to search her house.
But Hey! Marina knew about it all that time-supposedly-but didn't tell her friend Ruth about it in case she walked out and tripped over it or something. My...the secrecy there.
~~Michael Paine testified that he had noticed a blanket with items in it but merely felt around it and determined that it must be camping equipment...supposedly.~~
His lies are another story...the question remains, how did Ruthie know that Harv bought a rifle on Mar 20?
Al Jenner- Commission attorney- asked about this... The rest of Ruthie's garbage can be read here.......
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/paine_r3.htm
Good luck wading through it all with a shovel because it makes absolutely no sense either.
Mr Jenner failed to ask the real toughie ...Why???...Why did she write that note? 
How could she have not remembered Nov 23 [of all days]?


At the top of Mrs Paine's calendar March 1963 [CE 401] there is a star and a note 'LHO purchase of rifle'. This calendar was confiscated in a search.
Ruth Paine testified that she had no idea Oswald had acquired a rifle and that it had been supposedly  wrapped up in a blanket lying on the floor of her garage [all that time]....at least not until November 22 when police came to search her house.

Mrs Paine said that she wrote the note on her calendar on Saturday November 23......

She's a damned liar.   On page 76 of FBI agent Hosty's book ; ASSIGNMENT OSWALD :  Hosty says on Monday November 25, that  he and agent Warren DeBrueys  were sifting through the items that had been taken from the Paines house on 11/22/63. The items had belonged to both the Paines and the Oswald's.

Ruth Paine did not have that calendar on Saturday 11/23/63.   

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Ruthie Paine's Confusing Calendar
« Reply #285 on: July 16, 2022, 09:39:24 PM »

Online Walt Cakebread

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7178
Re: Ruthie Paine's Confusing Calendar
« Reply #286 on: July 17, 2022, 10:35:01 PM »
The Warren Commission (WC) claimed that Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) assassinated President John F. Kennedy (JFK) on November 22, 1963. They also claimed that he used an Italian Mannlicher-Carcano (M-C) to accomplish this deed.

They further claimed that the rifle had been ordered through the mail from a Chicago mail-order house by the name of Klein?s Sporting Goods (KSG). This topic has been covered in many ways in this series already, therefore, this post is going to focus on this topic from a different angle.

One of the main witnesses that the WC utilized to attempt to make LHO appear guilty was Ruth Paine. The purpose of this post is to look at the topic of the rifle order in conjunction with Ruth Paine.


******************************************

Ruth Paine was a key witness for the WC as she provided them with a lot of testimony. She also provided them with a lot of evidence from her house and garage even though the Dallas Police Department (DPD) had searched those areas twice already.

The evidence that she ?found? after the DPD had thoroughly searched her house and garage is as follows:

1)   The Imperial Reflex camera. This camera was allegedly found by her in early December 1963, but instead of giving it to the DPD she gave it to LHO?s brother Robert Oswald. He then felt no compulsion to turn it over to the DPD until February 1964. This camera was alleged to belong to LHO and was used by the WC to try and tie him to the assassination and the General Edwin A. Walker (EAW) shooting. How? They claimed that the only two times that it was used by LHO was to allegedly take the reconnaissance photographs of EAW?s house and the Backyard photographs (BYPs).

2)   The alleged note that LHO supposedly left for Marina Oswald telling her what to do in an emergency. The WC said this was left because LHO was planning on, and did, shoot at EAW.  The main problem with this claim (besides there being no supporting evidence) was that the note never mentions EAW.

3)   A suitcase that was needed to try and tie LHO to a bus headed for Mexico City. The problem that the WC faced regarding the one Ruth Paine ?found? is that not one witness could be found to say that they saw LHO carrying it.

4)   The other piece of evidence that the WC utilized with Ruth Paine was her personal calendar. This calendar was taken by the FBI and never returned to Ruth Paine. The WC was simply given a version that had been photographed and they designated this Commission Exhibit (CE) 401.


CE 401: http://www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0039a.htm

We have been told that LHO allegedly ordered the rifle on March 13, 1963, by the WC in their Report.

Quote on

According to its microfilm records, Klein?s received an order for a rifle on March 13, 1963, on a coupon clipped from the February 1963 issue of the American Rifleman magazine. The order coupon was signed, in handprinting, ?A. Hidell, P.O. Box 2915, Dallas, Texas.? (WCR, p. 119)

http://www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0072a.htm

Quote off

If we go to Ruth Paine?s calendar for March 1963 we won?t find any notation regarding this alleged activity by LHO and rightly so. How would she know what he was doing then since Marina Oswald was not living with her at that time.

CE 401/March: http://www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0041b.htm

What we do find however is something very confusing and very enlightening. There is a ?☆? on the box for March 20, 1963. In the upper right hand corner we see ?☆ ? LHO purchase of rifle?. To the left of this notation we see another notation that says ?Oct. 23?. Here is Ruth Paine?s testimony regarding these notations.

Mr. JENNER - Now, I turn to March, and I direct your attention to the upper left-hand corner of that card, and it appears to me that in the upper left-hand corner are October 23, then a star, then "LHO" followed by the words "purchase of rifle." Would you explain those entries?

Mrs. PAINE - Yes. This was written after.

Mr. JENNER - After?

Mrs. PAINE - This was written indeed after the assassination.

Mr. JENNER - All right.

Mrs. PAINE ? I heard on the television that he had purchased a rifle.

Mr. JENNER - When?

Mrs. PAINE ? I heard it on November 23.

Mr. JENNER - Yes.

Mrs. PAINE - And went back to the page for March, put a little star on March 20 as being a small square, I couldn't fit in all I wanted to say. I just put in a star and then referring it to the corner of the calendar.

Mr. JENNER - That is to the entry I have read?

Mrs. PAINE - Put the star saying "LHO purchase of rifle." Then I thought someone is going to wonder about that, I had better put down the date, and did, but it was a busy day, one of the most in my life and I was off by a month as to what day it was.

Mr. JENNER - That is you made the entry October?

Mrs. PAINE ? October 23 instead of November.

Mr. JENNER - It should have been November 23?

Mrs. PAINE ? It should have been November 23.

Mr. JENNER - And the entry of October 23, which should have been November 23, was an entry on your part indicating the date you wrote on the calendar the star followed by "LHO purchase of rifle" and likewise the date you made an entry?

Mrs. PAINE - On the 20th.

Mr. JENNER - This is the square having the date March 20

Mrs. PAINE - Yes.

Mr. JENNER - Is that correct?

Mrs. PAINE - I might point out that I didn't know Lee had a middle name until I had occasion to fill out forms for Marina in Parkland Hospital.

Mr. JENNER - That is when you learned that his middle name was Harvey and his initial was H?

Mrs. PAINE - Right.

Where to begin? So she said that she heard on television on November 23, 1963, that LHO purchased a rifle on March 20, 1963. If she did she was given incorrect information as we have seen the date the WC claimed that the KSG records showed was March 13, 1963.

Even if November 23, 1963, was the busiest day of her life as she says, how do you forget the date since the previous day was one where the President had been assassinated? November 22, 1963, is one of the most important days of our country?s history. It is up there with May 1, 1776, April 12, 1861, December 7, 1941, and September 11, 2001. But we are asked to believe that as she sat and watched television coverage of the president?s assassination, and DPD people were searching her house and garage she somehow thought that it was October?  Really?

Then she makes the comment about ?someone wondering about this?. Why? Why would she think anyone would care about her calendar the day after the assassination? What did her calendar have to do with the assassination? Clearly the DPD had no interest in it since they did not seize it during their searches on November 22 and 23. So who was the ?someone? that she was worried about?

Another key question is when did she hear this on November 23?  Since this supposed rifle order was in the name of ?A. Hidell? it wouldn?t have been until early evening that the media would have gotten word from the DPD that LHO was  supposedly this person. If the media was so thorough in this area, why were they so poor in the alleged order date area?

What if she really did learn about the order on October 23, 1963, as her notation suggests? How could she have learned about the order before the assassination? One could say that LHO told her himself, but this is doubtful for several reasons. Firstly, he denied ever ordering or owning a rifle and the evidence that the WC provided us with supports his statement.  Secondly, LHO and Ruth Paine had a cool relationship so it seems doubtful that he would share this kind of information with her. Thirdly, and most importantly, if she transported the rifle to New Orleans and back to Dallas as the WC claimed, why wouldn?t he have told her about the order sooner than October 23? To me it seems doubtful that LHO would have told her this kind of information due to their cool relationship and the fact that he never ordered CE 139 as claimed. If not LHO,  then who could have told her about the alleged order?

Another question that has not been answered is the one about her comment regarding LHO?s middle name. She testified that she did not know his middle name until she filled out forms for Marina Oswald at Parkland Hospital (PH). The only time that she could have done this was following the shooting of LHO on November 24, 1963, as he was in the Dallas County jail the rest of his time of incarceration. Given this fact, how could she know that his middle initial was ?H? on November 23 to make the notation of ?LHO purchased rifle?? How could she know on November 23, or October 23 for that matter, that his monogram was L.H.O. if she didn?t know his middle name as she said in her testimony?

[Note: It was noted after I posted this on the old version of this board that perhaps Ruth Paine could have learned of Oswald's middle name during the birth of his second child. That is possible, but I still find it odd that she would use all three initials when it seems more normal to use "LO" on a personal calendar. The government is more known for using the middle initial. Was this part of her training?]

To me this is just another hint that her story is not truthful. Keep in mind that the FBI took this calendar and only provided the WC with a photographic copy for testimony. There is a possibility that things could have been added to the calendar while in their custody.

To me the incorrect date of the order is another possible hint as it is a week off, and it seems unlikely that this type of detailed information would have been transferred to the media that quickly. All the DPD had to say is that he owned the rifle. At most they could say that it was ordered in March, but there was no need for an exact date. Another important point was that the DPD had nothing to do with the ?discovery? of the rifle order. This was solely the work of the FBI and they were tightlipped about what they shared with the DPD.

KSG?s William Waldman testified that the FBI took the microfilm that supposedly contained the alleged order by LHO.


Mr. BELIN. I'm handing you what has been marked as an FBI Exhibit D-77 and ask you if you know what this is.

Mr. WALDMAN. This is a microfilm record that---of mail order transactions for a given period of time. It was turned over by us to the FBI.

Mr. BELIN. Do you know when it was turned over to the FBI?

Mr. WALDMAN. It was turned over to them on November 23, 1963.

This was key evidence that the FBI took possession of wnen they had NO jurisdiction! There is serious doubt that Waldman ever saw this alleged order when it was ?found? on the morning of November 23, 1963. He wasn?t asked this important question by the WC when he testified, thus, that pretty much indicates that he wasn?t shown the alleged order by the FBI agents.

The other KSG employee present, Mitchell Scibor, wasn?t asked this question either when he testified. None of the three FBI agents were called by the WC. I wonder why? The rifle is the key piece of evidence as if you can?t put CE 139 in LHO?s hands, and they couldn?t, you have no case against LHO. Clearly, if the rifle order had been found in a legal and ethical manner then the WC would not have been so shy about this matter.

The evidence seen in this post again illustrates the lengths the authorities would go to in order to make LHO appear guilty of assassinating JFK. They also had some key witnesses like Ruth Paine ready and willing to help make LHO appear guilty.

Once again we see evidence that raises serious doubts about the WC?s claims and conclusion, thus, they are sunk.


This is an excellent summation of of the story about Ruth Paine's calendar.   I never knew that the FBI never did return Ruth Paine's calendar to her.....

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Ruthie Paine's Confusing Calendar
« Reply #286 on: July 17, 2022, 10:35:01 PM »

Offline Jerry Freeman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3711
  • Skeptic
Re: Ruthie Paine's Confusing Calendar
« Reply #287 on: July 22, 2022, 06:56:55 AM »
This is an excellent summation of of the story about Ruth Paine's calendar.   I never knew that the FBI never did return Ruth Paine's calendar to her.....
From the article ....
Quote
It [Nov 22 '63] is up there with May 1, 1776
I was wondering about that May 1 date.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Ruthie Paine's Confusing Calendar
« Reply #287 on: July 22, 2022, 06:56:55 AM »

 

Mobile View