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Author Topic: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?  (Read 2492 times)

Online Joe Elliott

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #40 on: October 09, 2018, 02:18:59 AM »
You have a horizontal angle of 13 degrees. My measurements from maps indicated that at z222, the angle should be 8.5 degrees.   . . .
I don't know how you can say the right hand would be too far to the right in z222 when we cannot see it.  It seems to me that the arm and hand is between the throat exit wound location and JBC's right armpit in z224 because the right armpit is right of JFK's midline.I have set the angle at 13 degrees because that is what it is at z195. It is actually a bit more than 13 deg. But that is not the point. . . .
 
This is the point. The Warren Commission had the SBT occurring during z210-z225. The HSCA had it much earlier, around z195. But an earlier SBT was rejected by the LN community.
For the last 25+ years, the LN community accepts the SBT occurring during z221-z224. No LNer pushes for a SBT at z195.

I have modified your drawing, changing it from a z195 13 degrees angle to a z222 8.5 degree angle:



I used MS Paint which has limitations. And I am not a graphic artist. But this one change makes it line up pretty close.

Which shows why, after over fifty years, CTers do not use an accurate orthographic diagrams, showing the situation at z221-z224, to demonstrate why the SBT is impossible. Instead they prefer to use words.

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #40 on: October 09, 2018, 02:18:59 AM »


Online Joe Elliott

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #41 on: October 09, 2018, 03:36:37 AM »
Yes, we donít know exactly where the hand was in z222. Which means we canít use the hand position to rule out the SBT.
However, a higher hand position at z222 is a more likely position than the z224 position. It is unlikely that JFK was waving at the crowd. Lowered his hand down to the z224 position, and held it there. And then resumed lowing it at z225. More likely, he was lowering his hand all during the z220-z225 sequence. Just like he did so many other times during that motorcade.
In any case, no matter what level his hand was at z222, the hand should be too far outboard, too far to his right, to be directly in front of his throat.  Iíve tried simulated casual waves and my fingers come up a couple in inches short of being in front of the throat.
I don't know how you can say the right hand would be too far to the right in z222 when we cannot see it.  It seems to me that the arm and hand is between the throat exit wound location and JBC's right armpit in z224 because the right armpit is right of JFK's midline.
I know the hand is too far to the right because when I sit in a chair, rest my right elbow on a chair several inches below my shoulder, and practice waving my hand and then bringing it down to rest, my forearm, my hand, even my fingers, never get in front of where the knot of my tie would be if I was wearing a tie.
Get in the position you see JFK in this image. Then, keeping the elbow resting where it is, like the top of a table or chair, rotate you forearm to wave.
https://www.irishcentral.com/homepage/did-irish-born-william-greer-cause-jfks-death-107915254-237787211
Does your fingers ever get in front of the knot in your tie?

If not, we can reasonable be certain that his fingers could not have been hit by the bullet.

Offline Ray Mitcham

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #42 on: October 09, 2018, 08:46:32 AM »
This is the point. The Warren Commission had the SBT occurring during z210-z225. The HSCA had it much earlier, around z195. But an earlier SBT was rejected by the LN community.
For the last 25+ years, the LN community accepts the SBT occurring during z221-z224. No LNer pushes for a SBT at z195.

I have modified your drawing, changing it from a z195 13 degrees angle to a z222 8.5 degree angle:



I used MS Paint which has limitations. And I am not a graphic artist. But this one change makes it line up pretty close.

Which shows why, after over fifty years, CTers do not use an accurate orthographic diagrams, showing the situation at z221-z224, to demonstrate why the SBT is impossible. Instead they prefer to use words.

Joe, in your above diagram, where do you believe the bullet which went through John Connolly, exits his body?

Online Andrew Mason

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #43 on: October 09, 2018, 10:33:42 PM »
This is the point. The Warren Commission had the SBT occurring during z210-z225. The HSCA had it much earlier, around z195. But an earlier SBT was rejected by the LN community.
For the last 25+ years, the LN community accepts the SBT occurring during z221-z224. No LNer pushes for a SBT at z195.
Wrong. I do, at least a modified version of the SBT that passed through JFK's neck and struck JBC - just not in the back.
Quote
I have modified your drawing, changing it from a z195 13 degrees angle to a z222 8.5 degree angle:



I used MS Paint which has limitations. And I am not a graphic artist. But this one change makes it line up pretty close.

Which shows why, after over fifty years, CTers do not use an accurate orthographic diagrams, showing the situation at z221-z224, to demonstrate why the SBT is impossible. Instead they prefer to use words.
If you are doing it at z221-224 you have to show their positions as shown in those frames. For JFK you need to use z225. You have JBC turned farther right than the sightline to Zapruder. That was his position around z193, but not z221-4.  z221-4 shows him practically turned forward to the front. You also have to put JFK farther left than you show him because his right elbow is no longer on the car. He has moved left.  Even in z193 his arm extends out to the right from his shoulder so his rib cage could not be pressed right against the side. In z225 he is farther to the left than that. You have him still as far to the right as anyone could be in that seat.

Even with the position of JBC that you have, the bullet passes awfully close to JBC's spine. You have it going through JBC's chest. It did not penetrate even the right lug. Rather it went along and then through the right 5th rib,  and around the right lung driving bone shards into the lower lobe of the right lung.

If the second shot that stuck JBC occurred later as the 40+ witnesses to the 1.......2....3 shot pattern said, the angle of the bullet path from the SN to the direction of the car was almost 0. At that point the path through JBC is much easier to explain.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 07:24:45 AM by Andrew Mason »

Online Joe Elliott

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #44 on: October 13, 2018, 03:34:04 PM »
Joe, in your above diagram, where do you believe the bullet which went through John Connolly, exits his body?
The diagram I posted was just a modification of Andrew Masonís diagram except:
** I had to redraw from scratch a crude drawing on JFK and Connallyís torsos using MS Paint.
** Using the proper angle for z222, not z195.
It is just meant to show that a bullet at z222 through JFK should strike Connally somewhere.

A better drawing is found about a third of the way down:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-bullet_theory
seen here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-bullet_theory#/media/File:Sbt2.jpg

Even this drawing I have a couple of quibbles with:
1.   The horizontal angle is 12 degrees. I think it should be more like 8.5 degrees.
2.   Connally should not be quite so far inboard as this diagram shows.
3.   It should show the bullet curving as it travels through Connally and not maintain a perfectly straight line all the way to his thigh.
Ballistic tests show that a yawing WCC/MC bullet (and bullets in general) do not maintain a straight line. Clearly the bullet must have curved downward as it travelled through Connallyís chest. And likely curved to the left or right some, although itís impossible to tell which because we cannot see the exact position of Connallyís right hand and right leg at z222.
I would also like to see these sorts of drawings always appear in pairs, one a top view and the other a view from the side.

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #44 on: October 13, 2018, 03:34:04 PM »


Online Paul Ernst

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #45 on: October 13, 2018, 05:35:13 PM »
 :D

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #46 on: October 14, 2018, 08:54:07 PM »
This is the point. The Warren Commission had the SBT occurring during z210-z225. The HSCA had it much earlier, around z195. But an earlier SBT was rejected by the LN community.
For the last 25+ years, the LN community accepts the SBT occurring during z221-z224. No LNer pushes for a SBT at z195.

I have modified your drawing, changing it from a z195 13 degrees angle to a z222 8.5 degree angle:



I used MS Paint which has limitations. And I am not a graphic artist. But this one change makes it line up pretty close.

Which shows why, after over fifty years, CTers do not use an accurate orthographic diagrams, showing the situation at z221-z224, to demonstrate why the SBT is impossible. Instead they prefer to use words.

Now those are what I call square shoulders
Still more accurate than what these CT goofballs make up, though

 :D
« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 09:00:34 PM by Bill Chapman »

Online Paul Ernst

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #47 on: October 15, 2018, 04:53:21 PM »
 :D

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #47 on: October 15, 2018, 04:53:21 PM »


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