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Author Topic: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?  (Read 4105 times)

Offline Rob Caprio

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #30 on: October 01, 2018, 07:45:29 PM »
Tell us how to get a finger into the small wound channel produced by FMJ ammo

How do you know that the shallow wound observed was caused by a FMJ bullet?

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #30 on: October 01, 2018, 07:45:29 PM »

Offline Brian Doyle

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If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #31 on: October 01, 2018, 08:05:06 PM »
The path of the official magic bullet could not have transited without hitting JFK's vertebra...

Offline Andrew Mason

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #32 on: October 01, 2018, 11:05:43 PM »
We keep seeing LNers speculate that a bullet entered JFK at the base of his neck and exited through his throat, but nearly 55 years later they have failed to provide any supporting evidence for this claim.
There is abundant proof that a bullet entered his back and exited his throat. First of all, there was a hole in his throat that was observed by doctors in Parkland.  Second, there were slits in his shirt in the doubled button area under the tie knot and there was a nick on the underside left side of his tie knot.  There is no conceivable way anything but a bullet could have made that hole in his throat. For example, we can see in the zfilm that he was not stabbed with a tiny round pole.  If the hole in his throat was made by a bullet these holes were necessarily made by a bullet either entering or exiting.  The characteristics of the threads on these holes indicated that the holes in the shirt were made by an exiting bullet.  Since human necks are not known to spontaneously produce and expel bullets, this means that the bullet had entered JFK's neck from behind.

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #32 on: October 01, 2018, 11:05:43 PM »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2018, 11:06:23 PM »
Why don?t those who believe the SBT is false show accurate Orthographic drawings, and use these drawings to convince newcomers that the SBT is false.

You don't have any more basis than anyone else for declaring what an "accurate orthographic drawing" is.  They all involve guesswork and assumptions.  It's not like the Powers film was taken on Elm street or you have an actual overhead view of the assassination.

Offline Rob Caprio

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #34 on: October 02, 2018, 02:18:07 AM »
There is abundant proof that a bullet entered his back and exited his throat. First of all, there was a hole in his throat that was observed by doctors in Parkland.  Second, there were slits in his shirt in the doubled button area under the tie knot and there was a nick on the underside left side of his tie knot.  There is no conceivable way anything but a bullet could have made that hole in his throat. For example, we can see in the zfilm that he was not stabbed with a tiny round pole.  If the hole in his throat was made by a bullet these holes were necessarily made by a bullet either entering or exiting.  The characteristics of the threads on these holes indicated that the holes in the shirt were made by an exiting bullet.  Since human necks are not known to spontaneously produce and expel bullets, this means that the bullet had entered JFK's neck from behind.

And the words "supporting evidence" are totally ignored. Supposition and conjecture is all we get. It happened the way the WC said. Trust me.

Nope.

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #34 on: October 02, 2018, 02:18:07 AM »

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #35 on: October 02, 2018, 03:57:28 AM »
All you have done is make case that his right hand may not have been directly on the path from his neck exit wound to JBC's right armpit.  We don't know exactly where it was in z222.   So it is a conjecture that at z222 it was not close to the position seen in z224. But that was not the point I was making. I was making the point that the trajectory still doesn't work. "Even if the tumbling bullet was able to somehow miss striking JFK's hands..", the trajectory to JBC's right armpit is left to right whereas the bullet path is right to left.
Yes, we don?t know exactly where the hand was in z222. Which means we can?t use the hand position to rule out the SBT.
However, a higher hand position at z222 is a more likely position than the z224 position. It is unlikely that JFK was waving at the crowd. Lowered his hand down to the z224 position, and held it there. And then resumed lowing it at z225. More likely, he was lowing his hand all during the z220-z225 sequence. Just like he did so many other times during that motorcade.
In any case, no matter what level his hand was at z222, the hand should be too far outboard, too far to his right, to be directly in front of his throat.  I?ve tried simulated casual waves and my fingers come up a couple in inches short of being in front of the throat.

I have posted many times various projections from a 3D model that is a 1:1 scale model of the limo and Dealey Plaza.  I have also shown in various photos using sight lines and mapping those sightlines onto a scale model of the limo, that JBC is not inboard of JFK enough to put his right ampit to the left of JFK's neck exit wound, let alone the 4-5 inches required. JBC is in the middle of his seat.  That fact can be seen not only in the zfilm but also in photos on Houston as shown in this simple sightline analysis
You have a horizontal angle of 13 degrees. My measurements from maps indicated that at z222, the angle should be 8.5 degrees. This would make a difference of 2.3 inches, horizontally.
Also, you have JFK too far inboard. Your diagram shows his right elbow barely reaching the side of the car. From the picture you provide, his elbow extends a few inches beyond. This makes more sense, because if his elbow barely reached the side of the car, it would often be slipping off the side of the car while he was resting it during that last 45 minutes.

Offline Andrew Mason

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #36 on: October 03, 2018, 06:23:42 AM »
Yes, we don?t know exactly where the hand was in z222. Which means we can?t use the hand position to rule out the SBT.
However, a higher hand position at z222 is a more likely position than the z224 position. It is unlikely that JFK was waving at the crowd. Lowered his hand down to the z224 position, and held it there. And then resumed lowing it at z225. More likely, he was lowing his hand all during the z220-z225 sequence. Just like he did so many other times during that motorcade.
In any case, no matter what level his hand was at z222, the hand should be too far outboard, too far to his right, to be directly in front of his throat.  I?ve tried simulated casual waves and my fingers come up a couple in inches short of being in front of the throat.
I don't know how you can say the right hand would be too far to the right in z222 when we cannot see it.  It seems to me that the arm and hand is between the throat exit wound location and JBC's right armpit in z224 because the right armpit is right of JFK's midline.
Quote
You have a horizontal angle of 13 degrees. My measurements from maps indicated that at z222, the angle should be 8.5 degrees. This would make a difference of 2.3 inches, horizontally.
Also, you have JFK too far inboard. Your diagram shows his right elbow barely reaching the side of the car. From the picture you provide, his elbow extends a few inches beyond. This makes more sense, because if his elbow barely reached the side of the car, it would often be slipping off the side of the car while he was resting it during that last 45 minutes.
I have set the angle at 13 degrees because that is what it is at z195. It is actually a bit more than 13 deg. But that is not the point. The point is that JBC is in the middle of his seat and his right armpit is right of JFK's midline. Unless you can show that JFK is dramatically farther right in z222 than he is in z186 or on Houston or JBC is much farther left in z222 than in earlier frames, the trajectory from JFK's throat exit wound goes well to the left of JBC's spine.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2018, 03:14:58 PM by Andrew Mason »

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #36 on: October 03, 2018, 06:23:42 AM »

Offline Allan Fritzke

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #37 on: October 03, 2018, 05:55:45 PM »
Most people are following the rabbit trail just fine.  You have to believe what the WC reported to you as facts.  They manage to get Malcom Perry (physician who worked on JFK at PH) to change his mind about what he reported the day the assassination took place.    He finally conceded that the bullet was a FMJ because the WC said so!

http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Malcolm_Perry_(physician)
From this report:
"Perry stated three times at a press conference later that day that Kennedy's neck wound appeared to be an entrance wound.[citation needed] Although his statement appeared to be definitive, he had not intended it to be.[3] When interviewed by the Warren Commission, Perry said that he then believed that a "full jacketed bullet without deformation passing through the skin would leave a similar wound for an exit and entrance wound and with the facts which you have made available and with these assumptions, I believe that it was an exit wound."

On the presumption (and their assumptions!) made by the WC, he changed his initial statements he made.  The magic bullet story.   Again, when did the bullet start tumbling and why just a few grains missing from the rear?   He was never questioned about wound size or location on JFK's back and why he drew this conclusion at a press conference on the first day.  He is implying rear and front wound similar in size and he may have been mistaken after listening to the WC!     There must have been something on that first day that tipped him off that it was a frontal shot!   Was this the first gun shot wound he ever looked at that he concluded so wrongly on that first day?    Clearly, it looks like coercion on the part of the WC to retract what he initially said and say what they wanted to hear instead!

Clearly, you have to look at what data has been collected.  This data tells you what happened - ie. Perry's original press release!  Then, from that you determine how something happened.  If you circumvent this by already interjecting the bullet from behind theory, you have already forced a solution to pop out and it is a cover up.   Most of what we saw by the WC was like that.

On aside note,  that same thing occurred at the 9/11 commission report - another internally controlled report.   That time a President wasn't removed from office but the Patriot Act and Homeland Security came as a direct result  of it.  The nation's people where terrified by Anthrax scares and by elevated terrorist threat daily reports (yellow, red, orange etc.) and surrendered their freedoms to the government to do as they please with them.  Again, another sad day in history!


« Last Edit: October 03, 2018, 06:33:01 PM by Allan Fritzke »

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #37 on: October 03, 2018, 05:55:45 PM »

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #38 on: October 09, 2018, 02:18:59 AM »
You have a horizontal angle of 13 degrees. My measurements from maps indicated that at z222, the angle should be 8.5 degrees.   . . .
I don't know how you can say the right hand would be too far to the right in z222 when we cannot see it.  It seems to me that the arm and hand is between the throat exit wound location and JBC's right armpit in z224 because the right armpit is right of JFK's midline.I have set the angle at 13 degrees because that is what it is at z195. It is actually a bit more than 13 deg. But that is not the point. . . .
 
This is the point. The Warren Commission had the SBT occurring during z210-z225. The HSCA had it much earlier, around z195. But an earlier SBT was rejected by the LN community.
For the last 25+ years, the LN community accepts the SBT occurring during z221-z224. No LNer pushes for a SBT at z195.

I have modified your drawing, changing it from a z195 13 degrees angle to a z222 8.5 degree angle:



I used MS Paint which has limitations. And I am not a graphic artist. But this one change makes it line up pretty close.

Which shows why, after over fifty years, CTers do not use an accurate orthographic diagrams, showing the situation at z221-z224, to demonstrate why the SBT is impossible. Instead they prefer to use words.

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #39 on: October 09, 2018, 03:36:37 AM »
Yes, we don?t know exactly where the hand was in z222. Which means we can?t use the hand position to rule out the SBT.
However, a higher hand position at z222 is a more likely position than the z224 position. It is unlikely that JFK was waving at the crowd. Lowered his hand down to the z224 position, and held it there. And then resumed lowing it at z225. More likely, he was lowering his hand all during the z220-z225 sequence. Just like he did so many other times during that motorcade.
In any case, no matter what level his hand was at z222, the hand should be too far outboard, too far to his right, to be directly in front of his throat.  I?ve tried simulated casual waves and my fingers come up a couple in inches short of being in front of the throat.
I don't know how you can say the right hand would be too far to the right in z222 when we cannot see it.  It seems to me that the arm and hand is between the throat exit wound location and JBC's right armpit in z224 because the right armpit is right of JFK's midline.
I know the hand is too far to the right because when I sit in a chair, rest my right elbow on a chair several inches below my shoulder, and practice waving my hand and then bringing it down to rest, my forearm, my hand, even my fingers, never get in front of where the knot of my tie would be if I was wearing a tie.
Get in the position you see JFK in this image. Then, keeping the elbow resting where it is, like the top of a table or chair, rotate you forearm to wave.
https://www.irishcentral.com/homepage/did-irish-born-william-greer-cause-jfks-death-107915254-237787211
Does your fingers ever get in front of the knot in your tie?

If not, we can reasonable be certain that his fingers could not have been hit by the bullet.

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #39 on: October 09, 2018, 03:36:37 AM »

 

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