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Author Topic: If a bullet didn't go through JFK, then exactly how did Connally get hit?  (Read 50879 times)

Offline Rob Caprio

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Re: If a bullet didn't go through JFK, then exactly how did Connally get hit?
« Reply #168 on: September 24, 2018, 02:23:57 PM »
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Connally was hit by the second bullet.

JohnM

JBC and his wife disagree with you.

***************************************

One of the most important witnesses to the assassination was the Governor of Texas -- John B. Connally (JBC). He was actually inside the limousine with President John F. Kennedy (JFK) and was also shot, so he would have been in the best position to determine what happened.  Unfortunately for the Warren Commission (WC), and its defenders, he NEVER supported the Single Bullet Theory (SBT) claim.  He said he was shot by a DIFFERENT bullet than the one that hit JFK first. 

Let's take a look at some of his WC testimony.


*******************************************

Mr. SPECTER. As the automobile turned left onto Elm from Houston, what did occur there, Governor?

Governor CONNALLY. We had--we had gone, I guess, 150 feet, maybe 200 feet, I don't recall how far it was, heading down to get on the freeway, the Stemmons Freeway, to go out to the hall where we were going to have lunch and, as I say, the crowds had begun to thin, and we could--I was anticipating that we were going to be at the hall in approximately 5 minutes from the time we turned on Elm Street.

We had just made the turn, well, when I heard what I thought was a shot. I heard this noise which I immediately took to be a rifle shot. I instinctively turned to my right because the sound appeared to come from over my right shoulder, so I turned to look back over my right shoulder, and I saw nothing unusual except just people in the crowd, but I did not catch the President in the corner of my eye, and I was interested, because once I heard the shot in my own mind I identified it as a rifle shot, and I immediately--the only thought that crossed my mind was that this is an assassination attempt.

So I looked, failing to see him, I was turning to look back over my left shoulder into the back seat, but I never got that far in my turn. I got about in the position I am in now facing you, looking a little bit to the left of center, and then I felt like someone had hit me in the back.

So we see the Governor said he looked to his right and then started to look to the left when he FINALLY got hit in the back by a bullet.  There is NO way he could have done all of this IF he had been hit immediately by the bullet that first hit JFK.  Proof of this is the FACT he is seen holding his Stetson hat in his right hand while JFK is already visibly reacting to a shot.  JBC never lets go of the hat and this would be impossible IF he was eventually hit in the wrist as the Single Bullet Theory (SBT) claims.

Mr. SPECTER. What is the best estimate that you have as to the time span between the sound of the first shot and the feeling of someone hitting you in the back which you just described?

Governor CONNALLY. A very, very brief span of time. Again my trend of thought just happened to be, I suppose along this line, I immediately thought that this--that I had been shot. I knew it when I just looked down and I was covered with blood, and the thought immediately passed through my mind that there were either two or three people involved or more in this or someone was shooting with an automatic rifle. These were just thoughts that went through my mind because of the rapidity of these two, of the first shot plus the blow that I took, and I knew I had been hit, and I immediately assumed, because of the amount of blood, and in fact, that it had obviously passed through my chest. that I had probably been fatally hit.

According to the WC, and its defenders, ONLY ONE person was involved and he was using an OLD rifle with a bolt action that was NOT easy to manipulate.  IF they are correct, how did LHO manipulate the bolt so fast as to confuse NUMEROUS people into thinking shots came "right on top of each other?" 

GOVERNOR CONNALLY. ...So I merely doubled up, and then turned to my right again and began to--I just sat there, and Mrs. Connally pulled me over to her lap. She was sitting, of course, on the jump seat, so I reclined with my head in her lap, conscious all the time, and with my eyes open; and then, of course, the third shot sounded, and I heard the shot very clearly. I heard it hit him. I heard the shot hit something, and I assumed again--it never entered my mind that it ever hit anybody but the President. I heard it hit. It was a very loud noise, just that audible, very clear.

Immediately I could see on my clothes, my clothing, I could see on the interior of the car which, as I recall, was a pale blue, brain tissue, which I immediately recognized, and I recall very well, on my trousers there was one chunk of brain tissue as big as almost my thumb, thumbnail, and again I did not see the President at any time either after the first, second, or third shots, but I assumed always that it was he who was hit and no one else.

I immediately, when I was hit, I said, "Oh, no, no, no." And then I said, "My God, they are going to kill us all." Nellie, when she pulled me over into her lap----

Again, we see based on the rapidity of the shots JBC was convinced more than one shooter was involved, thus, he said "THEY are going to kill us all."  Some researchers have said this was a "Freudian slip" as JBC knew of the conspiracy ahead of time, and thus, said THEY as he knew the details.  I'm NOT making any such claim.  MY point is BASED ON WHAT HE HEARD he felt more than one shooter was involved OR the one shooter had an automatic rifle.  Since we know the WC claimed LHO did NOT use an automatic rifle this option is eliminated and we are left with the one involving more than ONE shooter based on what G
JBC heard.


Mr. SPECTER. Would you place your initials, Governor, by the mark that you made there?

Governor, you have described hearing a first shot and a third shot. Did you hear a second shot?

Governor CONNALLY. No; I did not.

Mr. SPECTER. What is your best estimate as to the timespan between the first shot which you heard and the shot which you heretofore characterized as the third shot?

Governor CONNALLY. It was a very brief span of time; oh, I would have to say a matter of seconds. I don't know, 10, 12 seconds. It was extremely rapid, so much so that again I thought that whoever was firing must be firing with an automatic rifle because of the rapidity of the shots; a very short period of time.

Here we see him say the time between the first and third shots was just a matter of "seconds."  He then says, it seems to please the WC to me, "I don't know, 10, 12 seconds."  How many of you would think of 10 or 12 seconds when he said "seconds?"  NOT me.  He then goes on to say "it was extremely rapid...", so much so, he again thought "that whoever was firing MUST BE firing with an automatic rifle because of the RAPIDITY of the shots...". How would 10 or 12 seconds make anyone think an automatic rifle was being used?  Do they take 10 or 12 seconds between shots?  IF so, why are they called AUTOMATIC rifles then?

We must discount this obviously inaccurate statement to please the WC and look at the majority of what he is saying here.  He is saying the shots  (first and third) came so rapidly that he thought more than one shooter was involved or the shooter was using an AUTOMATIC rifle! How does this jive with what the WC told us happened?  IT DOESN'T.

Remember the memo I did in this series showing as of January 1964 the WC was still debating whether or not JFK was the target at all?  Look at this question from Congressman Boggs.


Representative BOGGS. You have no doubt about the fact that he was deliberately trying to hit you?

Governor CONNALLY. Yes, I do; I do have doubt, Congressman. I am not at all sure he was shooting at me. I think I could with some logic argue either way. The logic in favor of him, of the position that he was shooting at me, is simply borne out by the fact that the man fired three shots, and he hit each of the three times he fired. He obviously was a pretty good marksman, so you have to assume to some extent at least that he was hitting what he was shooting at.

On the other hand, I think I could argue with equal logic that obviously his prime target, and I think really his sole target, was President Kennedy. His first shot, at least to him, he could not have but known the effect that it might have on the President. His second shot showed that he had clearly missed the President, and his result to him, as the result of the first shot, the President slumped and changed his position in the back seat just enough to expose my back. I haven't seen all of the various positions, but again I think from where he was shooting I was in the direct line of fire immediately in front of the President, so any movement on the part of the President would expose me.

It should be noted that JBC still believed in the three shot scenario even though he keeps saying the second shot missed JFK.  He was basically saying the second shot caused ALL OF HIS WOUNDS as that is the ONLY one he claims missed JFK!  This is just as preposterous as the SBT claim in my mind.  What do you think?

I find it odd at this stage they are still trying to figure out if JFK was the primary target or not!  Was this just subterfuge or where they really NOT sure?  IF JBC was the target, and I really doubt it, why would LHO wait for the time when the president was with him, thus, in most normal times heightening the security he would face dramatically? It would seem to me since JBC was in Texas all the time LHO could have picked a better time to shoot at him IF he really wanted to.  What do you think?

It is apparent from JBC's testimony that the SBT did NOT happen.  It is also apparent that he felt two or more shooters were involved or the one shooter involved used an automatic weapon.  Since automatic weapons are NOT nearly as accurate this option seems out of the running (along with the fact the WC claimed NO such weapon was used). This leaves us with more than one shooter.

JBC's statements were corroborated by his wife who was sitting right next to him.


Mrs. CONNALLY. In fact the receptions had been so good every place that I had showed much restraint by not mentioning something about it before.

I could resist no longer. When we got past this area I did turn to the President and said, "Mr. President, you can't say Dallas doesn't love you."

Then I don't know how soon, it seems to me it was very soon, that I heard a noise, and not being an expert rifleman, I was not aware that it was a rifle. It was just a frightening noise, and it came from the right.

I turned over my right shoulder and looked back, and saw the President as he had both hands at his neck.

Mr. SPECTER. And you are indicating with your own hands, two hands crossing over gripping your own neck?

Mrs. CONNALLY. Yes; and it seemed to me there was--he made no utterance, no cry. I saw no blood, no anything. It was just sort of nothing, the expression on his face, and he just sort of slumped down.

Then very soon there was the second shot that hit John. As the first shot was hit, and I turned to look at the same time, I recall John saying, "Oh, no, no, no." Then there was a second shot, and it hit John, and as he recoiled to the right, just crumpled like a wounded animal to the right, he said, "My God, they are going to kill us all."

Again, we see the first shot hit JFK and did NOT hit JBC per his wife.  After she saw the president react ONLY then did she hear a second shot and her husband react to being hit.  I have done other statements that sink the SBT in this series, but these are firsthand accounts of people INSIDE THE LIMO that also sink the SBT.

It is very clear from their statements that JFK and JBC were NOT hit with the SAME bullet, thus, when we factor in the WC's claim that a shot missed and hit James Tague we are left with ONLY one option -- a FOURTH shot at the minimum.  This means a second shooter was involved and a CONSPIRACY took place.

It also means that the WC?s conclusion is false, therefore, it is sunk again.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 02:34:30 PM by Rob Caprio »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: If a bullet didn't go through JFK, then exactly how did Connally get hit?
« Reply #168 on: September 24, 2018, 02:23:57 PM »


Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: If a bullet didn't go through JFK, then exactly how did Connally get hit?
« Reply #169 on: September 24, 2018, 02:25:35 PM »
;D of course he was Jack.

You don't think SSA Kellerman, who was assigned for the protection of the President, would fail to recognize his Commander in Chief's own voice?

At a time of great confusion within the Limo, crowd noise, gunfire, do you think everyone in the Limo was just looking and hearing out for JFK?

Explain Kellerman changing his 11/23 statement. He claims to clearly hear JFK say this yet completely changes his story to accomodate a different statement.

Dave Powers had the exact same accent as JFK and was riding 10 feet behind JFK.

No one but Kellerman made this assertion despite the others being located right next to him and not only able to hear what he said but observe his reactions, it is simply what you desperately want to believe. Maybe this is why you seem unable to understand the assassination and grab onto to these meaning less obscurities.

If you are going to believe SS Kellerman and a single sentence, how do you discount his belief the car accelerated after the second shot before the third?

Explain how a bullet only penetrates two inches and stops. How the shooter would know the bullet is some sort of a misfire and compensate for it.

Once again explain how JBC was wounded without the bullet passing through JFK.

Offline John Mytton

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Re: If a bullet didn't go through JFK, then exactly how did Connally get hit?
« Reply #170 on: September 24, 2018, 02:38:45 PM »
JBC and his wife disagree with you.

***************************************

One of the most important witnesses to the assassination was the Governor of Texas -- John B. Connally (JBC). He was actually inside the limousine with President John F. Kennedy (JFK) and was also shot, so he would have been in the best position to determine what happened.  Unfortunately for the Warren Commission (WC), and its defenders, he NEVER supported the Single Bullet Theory (SBT) claim.  He said he was shot by a DIFFERENT bullet than the one that hit JFK first. 

Let's take a look at some of his WC testimony.


*******************************************

Mr. SPECTER. As the automobile turned left onto Elm from Houston, what did occur there, Governor?

Governor CONNALLY. We had--we had gone, I guess, 150 feet, maybe 200 feet, I don't recall how far it was, heading down to get on the freeway, the Stemmons Freeway, to go out to the hall where we were going to have lunch and, as I say, the crowds had begun to thin, and we could--I was anticipating that we were going to be at the hall in approximately 5 minutes from the time we turned on Elm Street.

We had just made the turn, well, when I heard what I thought was a shot. I heard this noise which I immediately took to be a rifle shot. I instinctively turned to my right because the sound appeared to come from over my right shoulder, so I turned to look back over my right shoulder, and I saw nothing unusual except just people in the crowd, but I did not catch the President in the corner of my eye, and I was interested, because once I heard the shot in my own mind I identified it as a rifle shot, and I immediately--the only thought that crossed my mind was that this is an assassination attempt.

So I looked, failing to see him, I was turning to look back over my left shoulder into the back seat, but I never got that far in my turn. I got about in the position I am in now facing you, looking a little bit to the left of center, and then I felt like someone had hit me in the back.

So we see the Governor said he looked to his right and then started to look to the left when he FINALLY got hit in the back by a bullet.  There is NO way he could have done all of this IF he had been hit immediately by the bullet that first hit JFK.  Proof of this is the FACT he is seen holding his Stetson hat in his right hand while JFK is already visibly reacting to a shot.  JBC never lets go of the hat and this would be impossible IF he was eventually hit in the wrist as the Single Bullet Theory (SBT) claims.

Mr. SPECTER. What is the best estimate that you have as to the time span between the sound of the first shot and the feeling of someone hitting you in the back which you just described?

Governor CONNALLY. A very, very brief span of time. Again my trend of thought just happened to be, I suppose along this line, I immediately thought that this--that I had been shot. I knew it when I just looked down and I was covered with blood, and the thought immediately passed through my mind that there were either two or three people involved or more in this or someone was shooting with an automatic rifle. These were just thoughts that went through my mind because of the rapidity of these two, of the first shot plus the blow that I took, and I knew I had been hit, and I immediately assumed, because of the amount of blood, and in fact, that it had obviously passed through my chest. that I had probably been fatally hit.

According to the WC, and its defenders, ONLY ONE person was involved and he was using an OLD rifle with a bolt action that was NOT easy to manipulate.  IF they are correct, how did LHO manipulate the bolt so fast as to confuse NUMEROUS people into thinking shots came "right on top of each other?" 

GOVERNOR CONNALLY. ...So I merely doubled up, and then turned to my right again and began to--I just sat there, and Mrs. Connally pulled me over to her lap. She was sitting, of course, on the jump seat, so I reclined with my head in her lap, conscious all the time, and with my eyes open; and then, of course, the third shot sounded, and I heard the shot very clearly. I heard it hit him. I heard the shot hit something, and I assumed again--it never entered my mind that it ever hit anybody but the President. I heard it hit. It was a very loud noise, just that audible, very clear.

Immediately I could see on my clothes, my clothing, I could see on the interior of the car which, as I recall, was a pale blue, brain tissue, which I immediately recognized, and I recall very well, on my trousers there was one chunk of brain tissue as big as almost my thumb, thumbnail, and again I did not see the President at any time either after the first, second, or third shots, but I assumed always that it was he who was hit and no one else.

I immediately, when I was hit, I said, "Oh, no, no, no." And then I said, "My God, they are going to kill us all." Nellie, when she pulled me over into her lap----

Again, we see based on the rapidity of the shots JBC was convinced more than one shooter was involved, thus, he said "THEY are going to kill us all."  Some researchers have said this was a "Freudian slip" as JBC knew of the conspiracy ahead of time, and thus, said THEY as he knew the details.  I'm NOT making any such claim.  MY point is BASED ON WHAT HE HEARD he felt more than one shooter was involved OR the one shooter had an automatic rifle.  Since we know the WC claimed LHO did NOT use an automatic rifle this option is eliminated and we are left with the one involving more than ONE shooter based on what G
JBC heard.


Mr. SPECTER. Would you place your initials, Governor, by the mark that you made there?

Governor, you have described hearing a first shot and a third shot. Did you hear a second shot?

Governor CONNALLY. No; I did not.

Mr. SPECTER. What is your best estimate as to the timespan between the first shot which you heard and the shot which you heretofore characterized as the third shot?

Governor CONNALLY. It was a very brief span of time; oh, I would have to say a matter of seconds. I don't know, 10, 12 seconds. It was extremely rapid, so much so that again I thought that whoever was firing must be firing with an automatic rifle because of the rapidity of the shots; a very short period of time.

Here we see him say the time between the first and third shots was just a matter of "seconds."  He then says, it seems to please the WC to me, "I don't know, 10, 12 seconds."  How many of you would think of 10 or 12 seconds when he said "seconds?"  NOT me.  He then goes on to say "it was extremely rapid...", so much so, he again thought "that whoever was firing MUST BE firing with an automatic rifle because of the RAPIDITY of the shots...". How would 10 or 12 seconds make anyone think an automatic rifle was being used?  Do they take 10 or 12 seconds between shots?  IF so, why are they called AUTOMATIC rifles then?

We must discount this obviously inaccurate statement to please the WC and look at the majority of what he is saying here.  He is saying the shots  (first and third) came so rapidly that he thought more than one shooter was involved or the shooter was using an AUTOMATIC rifle! How does this jive with what the WC told us happened?  IT DOESN'T.

Remember the memo I did in this series showing as of January 1964 the WC was still debating whether or not JFK was the target at all?  Look at this question from Congressman Boggs.


Representative BOGGS. You have no doubt about the fact that he was deliberately trying to hit you?

Governor CONNALLY. Yes, I do; I do have doubt, Congressman. I am not at all sure he was shooting at me. I think I could with some logic argue either way. The logic in favor of him, of the position that he was shooting at me, is simply borne out by the fact that the man fired three shots, and he hit each of the three times he fired. He obviously was a pretty good marksman, so you have to assume to some extent at least that he was hitting what he was shooting at.

On the other hand, I think I could argue with equal logic that obviously his prime target, and I think really his sole target, was President Kennedy. His first shot, at least to him, he could not have but known the effect that it might have on the President. His second shot showed that he had clearly missed the President, and his result to him, as the result of the first shot, the President slumped and changed his position in the back seat just enough to expose my back. I haven't seen all of the various positions, but again I think from where he was shooting I was in the direct line of fire immediately in front of the   

I said that Connally was hit by the second bullet then you reply that the Connally's would disagree with me then you post a wall of words supporting that Connally was hit by the second bullet, are you drunk?

JohnM

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: If a bullet didn't go through JFK, then exactly how did Connally get hit?
« Reply #170 on: September 24, 2018, 02:38:45 PM »


Offline Howard Gee

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Re: If a bullet didn't go through JFK, then exactly how did Connally get hit?
« Reply #171 on: September 24, 2018, 02:42:05 PM »
I think Kellerman is mistaken about hearing JFK say anything during the shooting.

For a trained agent, he's a pretty poor witness.

I believe Kellerman probably said 'we are hit, get us out of here'.

I don't believe he heard JFK say 'my god, I am hit'.

When could JFK possibly say 'my god, I am hit' ?

There's NO WAY he said 'my god I am hit' AFTER a bullet ripped through his throat, right ?

Therefore, JFK would have had to have said 'my god, I am hit' BEFORE the throat shot.

So once again, we are left with the conspiracy kook muddled scenario in which JFK is first hit by a bullet that enters his back and does not exit anywhere - and a throat entrance wound that doesn't exit anywhere - which means that the kooks now have TWO bullets that magically disappear after wounding JFK.

If the kooks want to claim the bullet that entered JFK's back fell out during cardiac massage, they STILL have to try to explain what happened to the bullet that they claim entered JFK's neck !!

Maybe they think THAT bullet fell out during cardiac massage too ?  :D

It's clear as day that the bullet that entered JFK's back MUST have exited from his throat.

And unless you believe that a bullet which exited JFK's throat just vanished into thin air, rather than hitting JBC or landing in the limo, -- and unless you foolishly believe 399 was planted -- then it's equally clear that 399 entered JFK's back, exited his throat, and wounded JBC.

SINGLE BULLET FACT

Offline Rob Caprio

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Re: If a bullet didn't go through JFK, then exactly how did Connally get hit?
« Reply #172 on: September 24, 2018, 02:44:02 PM »
No, I'm just trying to keep up with your ever changing conspiracy which you never seem to be able to define. One day you're Arthur and the next day you're Martha.

JohnM

You falsely attributed things to me knowing that I never said them. That is the definition of lying. You're a liar, but don't be upset as this was already known.

Why do you support a false claim?

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: If a bullet didn't go through JFK, then exactly how did Connally get hit?
« Reply #172 on: September 24, 2018, 02:44:02 PM »


Offline Howard Gee

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Re: If a bullet didn't go through JFK, then exactly how did Connally get hit?
« Reply #173 on: September 24, 2018, 02:51:08 PM »

Now did SSA Kellerman hear his Commander in Chief speak in his Boston accent - yes or no?

No.

Offline John Mytton

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Re: If a bullet didn't go through JFK, then exactly how did Connally get hit?
« Reply #174 on: September 24, 2018, 02:54:53 PM »
You falsely attributed things to me knowing that I never said them. That is the definition of lying. You're a liar, but don't be upset as this was already known

Stop squirming, in your never ending series which was rightly wiped off this Forum, you posted that you believed that Ruby didn't shoot Oswald and that Oswalds pubic hair was fake and now because your threads and the proof are gone, you are tryng to deny it. Pathetic.

JohnM

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: If a bullet didn't go through JFK, then exactly how did Connally get hit?
« Reply #174 on: September 24, 2018, 02:54:53 PM »


Offline John Mytton

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Re: If a bullet didn't go through JFK, then exactly how did Connally get hit?
« Reply #175 on: September 24, 2018, 02:57:28 PM »
Explain Kellerman changing his 11/23 statement. He claims to clearly hear JFK say this yet completely changes his story to accomodate a different statement

So Kellerman's earliest statement said something completely different, interesting.

JohnM