If a bullet didn't go through JFK, then exactly how did Connally get hit?

[John Mytton]

But what can you expect from a guy that can't determine what year a death occurred in even after being shown a gravestone, death certificate and newspaper article proving beyond any doubt precisely when the death occurred.

 

Caprio also thinks that Ruby didn't shoot Oswald and that Oswald's pubic hairs are fake.

JohnM

[Andrew Mason]

Yeah you're right, thanks. So a couple of frames after Kennedy was hit at Z223, Connally would hear the shot at Z225?

Well, he would have heard it less than 2 frames after the bullet struck JFK. The evidence is pretty consistent that it was the first shot that struck JFK. The first shot definitely occurred before z223. The last two were closer together and in rapid successsion. I can't tell by just looking at the zfilm when the shots occurred. The evidence indicates that JFK in z223 is reacting to being hitby the first shot that occurred before z202.

[Jerry Organ]

You are saying he must be right on that point.

In order to determine if he was right one has to look at all the evidence. Nellie said he was turned. He told Dr. Shires that he was turned to the right. Nellie said that she turned to look at JFK after the first shot and never looked back after the second shot. She is turned looking back at JFK until z268.

Where Nellie is looking ...

Towards Governor		Same		Same
Towards Governor		Towards Kennedy		Same
Towards Governor		Same		Towards Kennedy
Towards Kennedy		Towards Governor		Same

Seems more focused on the Governor. And her two brief looks backward could have been towards the Secret Service agents, as if trying to get them to do something.
The SBT scenario would have her looking at Kennedy just after the first shot (she's already turned her head enough, beginning in the Z270s, to see Kennedy in the Willis05 photo, with both eyes turned rightward). She said (at least once) that she was still looking at Kennedy when she heard the second shot. Arguably she's still turned enough to see Kennedy in the Z220s.

Greer said that he turned around immediately after the second shot. He does not turn until z278-280.

The problem is that we can't tell clearly where Greer's head is facing in earlier frames, or if his head is turned enough so his eyes turned rightward could see into the back.

[John Mytton]

Well, he would have heard it less than 2 frames after the bullet struck JFK. The evidence is pretty consistent that it was the first shot that struck JFK. The first shot definitely occurred before z223. The last two were closer together and in rapid successsion. I can't tell by just looking at the zfilm when the shots occurred. The evidence indicates that JFK in z223 is reacting to being hitby the first shot that occurred before z202.

If the bullet struck both men at Z223 then a split second before Connally heard the shot Zapruder's camera would have snapped Z225 and imo Z225 would be too early to see any movement in Connally from the rifle sound.

The following Gif is Z frames from Z222-225 centered on Connally and I'm seeing Connally's torso dramatically twisting and Connally jacket reacting and all this is before Connally has time to react to hearing a shot at Z223. And also consider Kellerman who is just sitting there motionless as compared to Connally.



We know Zapruder heard the headshot and if we take a look at the frames following the headshot we see a sharp vertical reaction at the time Zapruder would have heard and then react to a rifle sound.



Then we can go back and see if we can find any other sharp vertical movements and in the same timeframe after both men appear to be shot, Zapruder does a similar reaction that can be observed at the headshot.



JohnM

[Allan Fritzke]

Where Nellie is looking ...

Towards Governor		Same		Same
Towards Governor		Towards Kennedy		Same
Towards Governor		Same		Towards Kennedy
Towards Kennedy		Towards Governor		Same

Seems more focused on the Governor. And her two brief looks backward could have been towards the Secret Service agents, as if trying to get them to do something.
The SBT scenario would have her looking at Kennedy just after the first shot (she's already turned her head enough, beginning in the Z270s, to see Kennedy in the Willis05 photo, with both eyes turned rightward). She said (at least once) that she was still looking at Kennedy when she heard the second shot. Arguably she's still turned enough to see Kennedy in the Z220s.

I would interpret Nellie's head movement from swinging her head around from gazing at the 2 mystery men at Z220 over to staring at the Governor and by Z259 assessing the damage of the President.    My original theory was that the umbrella man  was being used as a distraction to attract Connally and JFK's attention while the mystery man on Jacqueline's side pulled the trigger.  He is visible on your shown frame at Z236.  A partially rolled up window offers protection for Nellie who is keeping to the front of her seat.  The plank seat on which JFK and Jacqueline were on was in an elevated position at the time to allow a shot to come in from the LHS.   You can see the clapping motion of the mystery man turns into a rapid behind the back move. Those 2 are not standing side by side but one behind the other.  It certainly looks like a black object is in the front man's hand as it goes behind his back.   The plank seat was then lowered causing JFK to be moved lower, inferring that no bullets could have come from the side with the partially raised side window.

Connally being shot remains a large mystery.  There is no testimonial evidence from Nellie or him that matches even closely to what is seen on the Zapruder Frames.   Nellie by Z342 is in motion to move down to Kennedy's legs, well behind JC.  JC takes one last look back at Z394 to make sure the President is dead.   You can't mistake his face looking back! How badly was he really hurt?  As I said her testimony is bogus and the recollection of events from her point of view can't be farther than the truth.  She says she held her hand over his gaping chest wound (indicated center) in order to seal the "sucking" wound!

It is really too bad that Jacqueline couldn't have spoken the truth and made statements - but she kept quiet for the sake of the country.  A coup d'etat -an inside job would have exposed a very large corruption ring and pushed the country at that time into turmoil - that couldn't happen.  I just wonder if Trump will be allowed to follow through with his unmasking.  The POTUS position is an old boy's club and if you aren't one of the Bush's or in the Bill Clinton camp, you are not to be sworn in as President!  At the very least you should be Skull & Bones to occupy such a position of prominence.

As I indicated before, the film editing isn't really that great and you can pick up where pieces were spliced in over heads on JC or obscured.  JC really was below the line of fire when Z330 shot came through the windshield and so was the front SS agent.   No one ever investigated the hit man rolling in the grass - a sure shot from that close - so sad! 

[Andrew Mason]

If the bullet struck both men at Z223 then a split second before Connally heard the shot Zapruder's camera would have snapped Z225 and imo Z225 would be too early to see any movement in Connally from the rifle sound.

Quite right. If JFK was hit by a bullet at z223, JBC's reaction at z225 could not be to the sound of it.

But that could also mean is that the shot that JFK is reacting to at z223 was prior to z223.  There is a great deal of evidence that the first shot struck JFK in the neck and that it was just after z186 and before z202.

The following Gif is Z frames from Z222-225 centered on Connally and I'm seeing Connally's torso dramatically twisting and Connally jacket reacting and all this is before Connally has time to react to hearing a shot at Z223. And also consider Kellerman who is just sitting there motionless as compared to Connally.

Again, you are assuming JFK was hit at z223. There is too much evidence that conflicts with that scenario.

We know Zapruder heard the headshot and if we take a look at the frames following the headshot we see a sharp vertical reaction at the time Zapruder would have heard and then react to a rifle sound.

Then we can go back and see if we can find any other sharp vertical movements and in the same timeframe after both men appear to be shot, Zapruder does a similar reaction that can be observed at the headshot.

Jiggle analysis is interesting but it has never been shown to be accurate in identifying shots. There are many more than 3 places where there are panning errors and jiggles.

Besides, I think you are reading too much into the difference between the two frames. He is moving the camera and the car is moving. Unless he is panning in a direction that perfectly matches the car, there is going to be a difference between frames of the car's position.

If you want to convince someone that there was an early missed shot and a second shot at z223, I would suggest that you could start by trying to find a reason not only why there is no evidence that JFK smiled and waved after the first shot (for 3 seconds, you say) but why there is so much evidence that he didn't - that he moved to the left with a blank look and moved his hands to his neck/chest.

[Howard Gee]

I personally do not believe CE 399 was "planted".

The damage to the windshield and the windshield chrome strip of the limo came from bullet lead, likely from the bullet that shattered JFK's head  at Z312/Z313.

I do believe we are making some progress here.

Since you don't believe 399 was planted, then how do you suppose it was found at Parkland ?

It certainly didn't fall off of JFK's gurney as that gurney was still in the trauma room that JFK was cooling off on.

Therefore, we know by the process of elimination that 399 must have been the bullet that wounded JBC. How else could it have gotten there ?

That wasn't hard was it ?

Now, let's deal with JFK's back/throat wound.

Since we know that no bullet was found in JFK's neck, we know that the throat wound had to be an exit wound.

We know this by the process of elimination. Since there is no exit wound for a bullet entering JFK's throat, and no bullet found in his neck, the inescapable conclusion is that the bullet which struck him in the back had to have exited through his throat, causing that wound.

This isn't speculation, it's fact.

So now we have established that a bullet entered JFK's back, passed through him, and exited his throat.

Next, we must ask what happened to the bullet that passed throught JFK.

Since there is no bullet found in the limo, we must conclude that the bullet that passed through JFK, went on to wound JBC, and was the one recovered at Parkland, CE399.

How else could it have happened ?

As I've said before, the application of a little common sense and logical deductive reasoning is all that's necessary to arrive at the SINGLE BULLET FACT.

[Jack Nessan]

You can not make that deduction in regards to CE 399 going through JFK. The bullet that penetrated JFK in his upper back was not tracked by dissection of the neck organs. That's a fact. The evidence from physical examination of JFK by the prosectors, and witnessed by two FBI agents, pointed to a shallow wound of entrance. The use of a metal probe failed to penetrate beyond the shallow wound despite JFK's lungs being removed. The bullet that struck JFK in his upper back could well have been "defective" and had less powder to propel the bullet at full velocity or it hit something in line with the trajectory to sufficiently slow it down.

JFK was given cardiac massage and it was possible that the bullet had dislodged without anyone noticing it as he never was turned over at Parklands.

Dr. CARRICO. As we said initially this was an acute emergency situation and there was not time initially and when the cardiac massage was done this prevented any further examination during this time this was being done. After the President was pronounced dead his wife was there, he was the President, and we felt certainly that complete examination would be carried out and no one had the heart, I believe, to examine him then.

Mr. SPECTER. And what theory did you think possible, at that juncture, to explain the passing of the bullet back out the point of entry; or had you been provided with the fact that external heart massage had been performed on the President?
Commander HUMES. Yes, sir; we had, and we considered the possibility that some of the physical maneuvering performed by the doctors might have in some way caused this event to take place.

Did anyone go through the bloodied sheets to search for a spent bullet? Anyone check the casket?

No metal was found on the front of JFK's clothing, yet copper was found on the back of the jacket and shirt.

Then, we have Kellerman - you know where l am about to go with this?

You don't need the SBT at all  - three shots, three hits. One non-penetrating.

So how did the lead fragments end up in JC's wrist and thigh?

The SBT is certainly no fact and that's why the WC left it at that.

The identity of the gunman who actually did the firing and from where is still unknown.

When the bullet struck JFK's head and shattered can you account for every bullet fragment and where they went?

Max Holland believes somewhere in dealey plaza there is a lost FMJ bullet. Why did it have to be "lost" in Dealey Plaza?

As you know, people react differently to being struck by a bullet.

What Arlen did in asking the Drs such leading and loaded questions was amateurish at best.

Mr. SPECTER. Dr. Shaw, assume if you will certain facts to be true in hypothetical form, that is, that the President was struck in the upper portion of the back or lower portion of the neck with a 6.5-mm. missile passing between the strap muscles of the President's neck, proceeding through a facia channel striking no bones, not violating the pleural cavity, and emerging through the anterior third of the neck, with the missile having been fired from a weapon having a muzzle velocity of approximately 2,000 feet per second, with the muzzle being approximately 100 to 250 feet from the President's body; that the missile was a copper jacketed bullet. Would it be possible for that bullet to have then proceeded approximately 4 or 5 feet and then would it be possible for it to have struck Governor Connally in the back and have inflicted the wound which you have described on the posterior aspect of his chest, and also on the anterior aspect of his chest?

From the above what do you think was actually proved?

Speaking of maximum speculation. All very interesting. Nonsense but interesting someone could come up with this BS.

How do you aim and fire a gun in which the bullet only ends up penetrating several inches? What is it, lack of powder in the cartridge? Some form of dud? If this is the case then the bullet would have hit the SS car or the street behind them. Do you aim really high because the bullet has no energy behind it. Do you just throw it by hand and hope it hits?

Still left with the question of how was JBC wounded if the bullet does not pass through JFK first. Seems you have proven that is the only answer there is.

Speaking of Kellerman, his second shot was the head shot, maybe you didn't know that:

Mr. SPECTER. Now, to the best of your ability to recollect, exactly when did your automobile first accelerate?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Our car accelerated immediately on the time-at the time--this flurry of shots came into it.
Mr. SPECTER. Would you say the acceleration--
Mr. KELLERMAN. Between the second and third shot.

Senator COOPER. Might I ask a question there?
Mr. SPECTER. Yes.
Senator COOPER. A few minutes ago you said in response to a question that when you spoke to the driver the car leaped forward from an acceleration immediately. Did that acceleration occur before the second shot was fired?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir. Just about the time that it came in.
Senator COOPER. About the time it came in?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir.
Senator COOPER. Not before?
Mr. KELLERMAN. No.