Conspiracy of the Three Stooges

[Walt Cakebread]

Another point worth mentioning is that the three men were clearly important witnesses and two had been identified early, within minutes trying to leave the building by Brennan to police. Yet only Williams was taken to DPD that afternoon but only because he was identified as one of the workers on the 6th floor that morning.

This indicates to me that the three were not immediately forthcoming to the authorities in the TSBD with what they had witnessed. Other far less important witnesses were taken to make statements that afternoon yet Jarman and Norman were simply released and went home. Presumably Williams initial statement that mentioned them caused the FBI to interview Jarman the next day and Norman finally on the following Tuesday.

Williams (and the other two) knew that Brennan had seen them on the Fifth floor and failed to come forward with what they knew voluntarily and as we see Williams is deliberately deceptive in his first statement. Jarman too supplies nothing about the fifth floor trip in his initial statement.

This indicates to me that the three were not immediately forthcoming to the authorities in the TSBD with what they had witnessed.

I disagree....  I don't believe the three stooges were being uncooperative and evasive.....However, I suspect that the authorities knew that there was a distinct possibility that BRW might have seen the khaki clad "deputy Sheriff" ( the man that Arnold Rowland saw and assumed was a security guard )  on the sixth floor and they wanted to be sure of what he'd seen before leaving the sixth floor.   

Other far less important witnesses were taken to make statements that afternoon yet Jarman and Norman were simply released and went home. Presumably Williams initial statement that mentioned them caused the FBI to interview Jarman the next day and Norman finally on the following Tuesday.


Yes....The authorities ( Hoover's Extra Special Agents) wanted to to be certain that Bonnie Ray hadn't told them anything about seeing a Khaki clad "Deputy Sheriff"  on the sixth floor immediately prior to the shooting.

[Walt Cakebread]

Jarman
11/23/63
At about 11:45 a.m. all of the employees who were working on the 6th floor came downstairs and we were all out on the street at about 12:00 o'clock noon. These employees were: Bill Shelley, Charles Givens, Billy Lovelady, Bonnie Ray (last name not known) and a Spanish boy (his name I cannot remember). To my knowledge Lee Oswald was not with us while we were watching the parade.

The day after Williams said that he, Jarman and Norman all travelled to the 5th floor and were only there a few minutes before the parade arrived, Jarman mentions nothing of this trip and the implication is that all the employees were outside watching the parade....except Oswald of course. The only information that can be gleaned from this statement is the approximate time of the "elevator race".

Williams tells the FBI the same day that he briefly visited the 6th floor.

Jan 14 FBI

Returned to 5th floor about 12.25

March 24 WC
Mr. JARMAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - How long did you stand there?
Mr. JARMAN - Well, until about 12:20, between 12:20 and 12:25.
Mr. BALL - Who do you remember was standing near you that worked with you in the Book Depository?
Mr. JARMAN - Harold Norman and Charles Givens and Daniel Arce.

Mr. JARMAN - We walked around to the back entrance and went through this door here, and this elevator here was up on six, I believe. And we walked around the elevator and took the west elevator up.
Representative FORD - How could you tell this elevator was at six?
Mr. JARMAN - Because after we got around to the other side we looked up.
Representative FORD - You could see it was on six?
Mr. JARMAN - Yes.
Representative FORD - This was about what time?
Mr. JARMAN - That was about 12:25 or 12:28.

Norman

December 4 - SS

About 12:15 P.M. on this same date, after I had eaten my lunch, I went to the fifth floor of the building to watch the parade of the President pass the building. Bonnie Ray Williams and James Jarman, who also worked at this building went with me.

March 18 - FBI

He was with Jarman and Williams on the 5th floor at 12.10 or 12.20

March 24 - WC

Mr. NORMAN. Well, we stayed there I believe until we got the news that the motorcade was coming down, let's see, is that Commerce, no Main, because Commerce- we went back in the building, James and I

A crosscheck with the DPD radiologs indicates the Motorcade got to Main about 12.24pm.

Jarman estimated the time they left the front of the TSBD to be 12.20-12.25.  They walked approximately 200 ft to the west elevator and about 160 ft to the SE corner of the 5th floor. This would take about a minute or so at walking speed. The elevator took about 45 seconds to reach the 5th floor. They could have been in position on the fifth floor about 2 minutes after departing the front steps and may have been in position around 12.25-27 depending on the accuracy of the broadcast.

Williams was with them for only 3-5 minutes before the motorcade passed the TSBD. If he vacated the 6th floor at the time they first arrived below him, he was in the SN until 12.25, just 5 minutes before the shots.

The answer to Ball and Belin's question.

Williams left the 6th floor no sooner than 12.25pm.

Mr. JARMAN - We walked around to the back entrance and went through this door here, and this elevator here was up on six, I believe. And we walked around the elevator and took the west elevator up.
Representative FORD - How could you tell this elevator was at six?
Mr. JARMAN - Because after we got around to the other side we looked up.
Representative FORD - You could see it was on six?
Mr. JARMAN - Yes.
Representative FORD - This was about what time?
Mr. JARMAN - That was about 12:25 or 12:28.


This is exactly what Lee Oswald told Captain Fritz he witnessed as he was eating his lunch in the first floor lunchroom....

[John Iacoletti]

As for the 5 minute time estimation, from memory i obtained it from the various statements of the three.

Norman's affidavit:

"From the time of the shots until we started down-stairs was about five minutes."

[Walt Cakebread]

Norman's affidavit:

"From the time of the shots until we started down-stairs was about five minutes."

That seems reasonable.....  They would have arrived at the entrance to the TSBD at about 12:36  / 12:38....and Brennan was talking to the cop and recognized them as the men he's seen hanging out of the fifth floor windows at the time of the shooting....  Incidentally... Brennan did NOT say that he saw the man who was STANDING and aiming a rifle out of a window was behind the window above those three men.   It would seem reasonable that Brennan would have noticed that the rifle was directly above them if  the rifle had been there.

[Colin Crow]

What Williams knew (or may have known) at the time of first affidavit.
There had been shots fired at the motorcade, possibly from a position he had been just five minutes before.
The three moved to the SW corner and discussed what they should do.
About 3-4 minutes after the shots a policeman was on the 5th floor.
They decided to take the stairs down and after pausing briefly on the 4th floor attempted to leave the building.
From memory Jarman and Williams attempted to leave via the front steps while Norman did not attempt to exit but stayed in the middle of the first floor.
They were sent back inside by police after being identified by Brennan as being on the floor below the SN at the time of the shooting.
After returning inside, likely about the time the rifle is found on the 6th floor, it became apparent that Oswald was not present and it is possible that this became known to the other workers.
It is possible that Givens absence was also discussed, as he too is mentioned in the affidavit.
Shortly after the discovery of the rifle, Fritz instructs Senkel to round up all those who had been working on the 6th floor that morning and take them for questioning and preparation of affidavits.
Accordingly, Williams, Shelley and Arce are taken in one car and Lovelady and Dougherty in another.
After arriving Williams notices Oswald has been apprehended and brought in to HQ.
He is specifically questioned about Oswald?s movements that morning.

Anyone think of anything I have missed?

[Colin Crow]

Who believes that by the time Williams was taken to the DPD to make his affidavit Jarman and Norman were unaware that he had been on the 6th floor prior to joining them ?

[Colin Crow]

Seems we are making progress. No one disagrees with the statement.

Already we have no serious objection to Williams being in the SN. Not only that but the available testimonies when analysed indicate he was there until 12.25pm.

Must make all those Arnold Rowland deniers look a bit silly......but let?s not get sidetracked. It seems obvious why Williams would not want to have told of his 6th floor sojourn in his affidavit. Also as Brennan had identified him within minutes he had no choice but to tell of the viewing of the motorcade from the 5th floor with Jarman and Norman.

About the time Williams was providing his statement to the DPD Det Johnson brings the remnants of his lunch back to the station. This would be widely reported by the news media as the assassin?s lunch for many days after the event. Williams was released at 3.30pm that day.

[Walt Cakebread]

Seems we are making progress. No one disagrees with the statement.

Already we have no serious objection to Williams being in the SN. Not only that but the available testimonies when analysed indicate he was there until 12.25pm.

Must make all those Arnold Rowland deniers look a bit silly......but let?s not get sidetracked. It seems obvious why Williams would not want to have told of his 6th floor sojourn in his affidavit. Also as Brennan had identified him within minutes he had no choice but to tell of the viewing of the motorcade from the 5th floor with Jarman and Norman.

About the time Williams was providing his statement to the DPD Det Johnson brings the remnants of his lunch back to the station. This would be widely reported by the news media as the assassin?s lunch for many days after the event. Williams was released at 3.30pm that day.

I'm not sure where you're going with this .....    Are you attempting to verify that the three stooges cooked up a tale to avoid the evidence of BRW being on the sixth floor until about 12:25?   

I do not accept that those three conspired to hide the fact that BRW was on the sixth floor.....  Any confusing or conflicting information that is attributed to any of them is probably the results of the FBI twisting the information that they received from those easily manipulated young Negroes.