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Author Topic: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges  (Read 51555 times)

Offline Howard Gee

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #264 on: September 25, 2018, 05:05:27 AM »
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From the OP Howard......When did these three conspire to deceive the authorities regarding Williams' true movements prior to the shooting?

I don't know of anyone who suggested that their time on the 5th floor was just two minutes. Did you have a self-serving motive for knowingly reducing it or just ignorance of the evidence?

More yawns.

Your conspiracy theory. You explain when, where and how the stooge conspiracy began.

I don't care if you think the stooges spent 30 seconds, 2 minutes or 2 hours on the 5th floor after the shots. It's your stooge conspiracy theory, you tell me when where and how it began.

And when you're done doing that, explain what meaning your 'suggested' stooge conspiracy, if true, has.

Is there is a larger point you're trying to make with your 'suggested' stooge conspiracy ?

Actually, you're not just 'suggesting' there was a stooge conspiracy, you're convinced there was a stooge conspiracy and claiming it as a fact.

Problem for you is, you can't explain when where or how the stooge conspiracy began and you don't like it when you're asked to provide those details or explain what meaning your 'suggested' stooge conspiracy has.

Going nowhere fast.

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #264 on: September 25, 2018, 05:05:27 AM »


Offline Colin Crow

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #265 on: September 25, 2018, 05:59:44 AM »
More yawns.

Your conspiracy theory. You explain when, where and how the stooge conspiracy began.

I don't care if you think the stooges spent 30 seconds, 2 minutes or 2 hours on the 5th floor after the shots. It's your stooge conspiracy theory, you tell me when where and how it began.

And when you're done doing that, explain what meaning your 'suggested' stooge conspiracy, if true, has.

Is there is a larger point you're trying to make with your 'suggested' stooge conspiracy ?

Actually, you're not just 'suggesting' there was a stooge conspiracy, you're convinced there was a stooge conspiracy and claiming it as a fact.

Problem for you is, you can't explain when where or how the stooge conspiracy began and you don't like it when you're asked to provide those details or explain what meaning your 'suggested' stooge conspiracy has.

Going nowhere fast.

If I was a Black Man in the south of the U.S. in 1963 and was being questioned by White Men with badges and guns about my whereabouts before during and after the shooting, I would lie my arse off to distance myself from the 6th floor at 12:30 as much as I could.

Maybe BRW thinks the cops will arrest him and he'll get executed for a crime he didn't commit and he had nothing to do with. He gets together with his buddies and "hey guys, let's all say this, i didn't do anything but i was just where the shots were fired and the cops might think i did it because i was just there a few minutes ago . . . "

Thanks Steve, I think you've pretty much nailed how the Black employees in general would have felt in 1963 and specifically Williams being on the same floor as where shots were fired from, would have given him a reason to be very worried.

Shtiscared?


JohnM

Thumb1:

That's reasonable. Young black dudes in Texas in 63 would be prepared to say whatever it took to avoid a beating or worse.

True, but couldn't they have made - or been forced to make - far more incriminating comments about Oswald then they did? Such as they saw him carry a large package into the building? Expressed hatred of JFK? Et cetera.


They lied to save BRW's skin.

and priceless.....

So Larry and Curly were willing to lie about Moe's whereabouts before 12:25 PM and possibly endanger themselves by doing so ?

Guess it's possible.

To date only one person in this thread thinks that Williams, Norman and Jarman had a common erroneous recollection recorded by the authorities in the days after the events. Actually Williams was recorded within 2 hours of the assassination. You will notice that many are from the LN camp. Replies seem to have died down recently.

Hopefully my posting of the actual documents in chronological order has been beneficial, as noted by JohnM.  As noted even Ball and Belin were suspicious of Williams lunch story......although seemingly oblivious to the lies of his co-witnesses. They spent some time in the third week of March in Dallas trying to sort the true "story" out and pre-preparing them for their upcoming testimonies before the WC.

No one is forcing you to read the thread Howard. I do not expect any meaningful contribution from you other than you have already supplied. For that thankyou.



Offline Howard Gee

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #266 on: September 25, 2018, 06:12:16 AM »
So no answer as to when where and how the stooge conspiracy began ?

That's what I figured.

Oh, I appreciate you thanking me for my meaningful contribution to the thread.

You're welcome.

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #266 on: September 25, 2018, 06:12:16 AM »


Offline Colin Crow

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #267 on: September 25, 2018, 06:19:21 AM »
So no answer as to when where and how the stooge conspiracy began ?

That's what I figured.

Oh, I appreciate you thanking me for my meaningful contribution to the thread.

You're welcome.

From the first post in the thread......

When did these three conspire to deceive the authorities regarding Williams' true movements prior to the shooting?

It may surprise you Howard but I do not know the answer......that is why I asked. I have a notion that it likely occurred before Williams departed with Shelley and Arce to the DPD to make his affidavit.....ie some time in the first hour after the shooting.

Offline Howard Gee

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #268 on: September 25, 2018, 06:28:20 AM »
From the first post in the thread......

When did these three conspire to deceive the authorities regarding Williams' true movements prior to the shooting?

It may surprise you Howard but I do not know the answer......that is why I asked. I have a notion that it likely occurred before Williams departed with Shelley and Arce to the DPD to make his affidavit.....ie some time in the first hour after the shooting.

Colin, it doesn't surprise me at all that you don't know the answer.

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #268 on: September 25, 2018, 06:28:20 AM »


Offline Colin Crow

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #269 on: September 25, 2018, 06:37:09 AM »
I wasn't expecting an answer from you Howard........after all......

I'm just not as smart as you are.

Offline Colin Crow

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #270 on: September 25, 2018, 07:35:24 AM »
Time to tackle Ball and Belin's questions with the evidence available to us. First up.....where was the lunch found.

Chicken Bone Story

Bonnie Ray Williams stated that he ate his lunch near the windows on the south side of the sixth floor.

The place where he ate his lunch.

Luke Mooney was first on the scene of the SN. His initial report mentions the lunch.

COUNTY OF DALLAS
SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT
SUPPLEMENTARY INVESTIGATION REPORT
ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT KENNEDY
Deputy Sheriff Luke Mooney, Dallas County Sheriff's Department.
Date: November 23 1963
I was standing in front of the Sheriff's office at 505 Main Street, Dallas, When President Kennedy and the motorcade passed by. Within a few seconds after he had passed me and the motorcade had turned the corner I heard a shot and I immediately started running towards the front of the motorcade and within seconds heard a second and a third shot. I started running across Houston Street and down across the lawn to the triple underpass and up the terrace to the railroad yards. I searched along with many other officers, this area, when Sheriff Bill Decker came up and told me and the Officers Sam Webster and Billy Joe Vickery to surround the Texas School Book Depository building. As we approached the two big steel wire gates to the building dock at the back of the building on Elm Street side, we saw that the loading dock had locks on it and I then pulled the steel gates closed and requested of a citizen standing there to see that no-one came out or went in until I could get a uniformed officer there, which he did. Officers Webster, Victory, and myself took to the building. Officers Webster and Victory took the stairs and I told them I would take the freight elevator. At the time I got on the elevator two women who work in the building got on the elevator, saying they wanted to go to their office. As the elevator started up, we went up one floor and the power to the elevator was cut off. I got out on the floor with these women and looked around in their office and I then took to the stairs and went to the 6th floor, and Officers Webster and Vickery went up to the 7th floor. I was the only person on the 6th floor when I searched it and was reasonably sure that there was no one else on this floor as I searched it and then criss-crossed it, seeing only stacks of cartons of books. I was at that time also checking for open windows and fire escapes. I found where someone had been using a skill saw in laying some flooring in one corner of this floor and I then went to the 7th floor and was assisting in searching it out and crawled into the attic opening and decided it was too dark and came down to order flash lights. I then went on back to the 6th floor and went direct to the far corner and then discovered a cubby hole which had been constructed out of cartons which protected it from sight and found where someone had been in an area of perhaps 2 feet surrounded by cardboard cartons of books. Inside this cubby hole affair was three more boxes so arranged as to provide what appeared to be a rest for a rifle. On one of these cartons was a half-eaten piece of chicken. The minute that I saw the expended shells on the floor, I hung my head out of the half opened window and signalled to Sheriff Bill Decker and Captain Will Fritz who were outside the building and advised them to send up the Crime Lab Officers at once that I had located the area from which the shots had been fired. At this time, Officers Webster, Victory, and McCurley came over to this spot and we guarded this spot until Crime Lab Officers got upstairs within a matter of a few minutes. We then turned this area over to Captain Fritz and his officers for processing. At this time I continued to search this 6th floor along with many other officers and within a few minutes, I heard Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone holler out that he had found the rifle near the staircase between some rows of cartons. We continued to search the building for a suspect.

Note that Mooney does not mention the lunch prior to discovery of the SN.

McCurley's Report


Officer A. D. McCurley, Deputy Sheriff, Dallas County Sheriff's Office (Statement 11/22/63)

Officer Jack Faulkner and I, together with several other City officers went to the building and started checking the floors. We were searching the 6th floor when Deputy Sheriff Mooney, who was also on the 6th floor, hollered that he had found the place where the assassin had fired from. I went over and saw 3 expended shells laying by the window that faced onto Elm Street, along with a half-eaten piece of chicken that was laying on a cardboard carton. It appeared as if the assassin had piled up a bunch of boxes to hide from the view of anyone who happened to come up on that floor and had arranged 3 other cartons of books next to the window as though to make a rifle rest. This area was roped off and guarded until Captain Will Fritz of Dallas Police Department Homicide Bureau arrived. It was about this same time that Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone yelled that he had found the rifle which had been placed between some rows of cardboard boxes near the staircase which leads down to the 5th floor.

Officer Jack Faulkner

There were also some chicken bones. Evidently he had chicken for his lunch. There were people that worked with him that had left maybe at noon. I don't know where they went because I didn't investigate that part of it. I've also heard of a bag which carried the rifle, but I never saw that. It could have been there, but I didn't notice it.
From "No More Silence: An Oral History of the Assassination of President Kennedy" - Larry A. Sneed

Officer Roger Craig, Deputy Sheriff
Mr. BELIN - About how soon after they were found did you see them, laying on the floor?
Mr. CRAIG - Oh, a couple of minutes. I went right on over there. I was at the far north end of the building. The cartridges were on the southeast corner.
Mr. BELIN - Well, how did you know they had been found there? Did someone yell---or what?
Mr. CRAIG - Yes; someone yelled across the room that "here's the shells."
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember who that was?
Mr. CRAIG - No; I couldn't recognize the voice.
Mr. BELIN - All right. Then, what did you do?
Mr. CRAIG - I went over there and--uh--didn't get too close because the shells were laying on the ground and there was--uh--oh, a sack and a bunch of things laying over there. So, you know, not to bother the area, I just went back across.
Mr. BELIN - Now, you say there was a sack laying there?
Mr. CRAIG - Yes; I believe it was laying on top of a box, if I'm not mistaken.
Mr. BELIN - How big a sack was that?
Mr. CRAIG - It was a paper bag (indicating with hands)--a small paper bag.
Mr. BELIN - Well, the kind-of paper bag that you carry your lunch in?
Mr. CRAIG - Yeah,--uh-huh.

Gerald Hill also recalls the finding of the SN and the Chicken Leg and Bag of top of the SN Boxes

Mr. HILL. We hadn't been there but a minute until someone yelled, "Here it is," or words to that effect.
I moved over and found they had found an area where the boxes had been stacked in sort of a triangle shape with three sides over near the window.
Mr. BELIN. What did you see over there?
Mr. HILL. There was the boxes. The boxes were stacked in sort of a three-sided shield.
That would have concealed from general view, unless somebody specifically walked up and looked over them, anyone who was in a sitting or crouched position between them and the window. In front of this window and to the left or east corner of the window, there were two boxes, cardboard boxes that had the words "Roller books," on them.
On top of the larger stack of boxes that would have been used for concealment, there was a chicken leg bone and a paper sack which appeared to have been about the size normally used for a lunch sack. I wouldn't know what the sizes were. It was a sack, I would say extended, it would probably be 12 inches high, 10 inches long, and about 4 inches thick.

At this point, I asked the deputy sheriff to guard the scene, not to let anybody touch anything, and I went over still further west to another window about the middle of the building on the south side and yelled down to the street for them to send us the crime lab.



Harry Weatherford

The 11-23-63 report of Deputy Sheriff Harry Weatherford notes "I came down to the 6th floor, and while searching this floor, Deputy Luke Mooney said "here are some shells." I went over to where he was and saw 3 expended rifle shells, a sack on the floor and a partially eaten piece of chicken on top of one of the cartons which was used as a sort of barricade."

Officer Brewer
Mr. BELIN. Did you go and take a look at the cartridge cases?
Mr. BREWER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. How many cartridge cases did you see?
Mr. BREWER. Three.
Mr. BELIN. Where were they?
Mr. BREWER. They were there under, by the window.
Mr. BELIN. What window?
Mr. BREWER. In the southeast corner of the building, facing south.
Mr. BELIN. See anything else there at the time by the window?
Mr. BREWER. Paper lunch sack and some chicken bones or partially eaten piece of chicken, or a piece at chicken.

Officer Haygood
Mr. BELIN. You saw some shells there?
Mr. HAYGOOD. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Where did you see them?
Mr. HAYGOOD. They were there under the window.
Mr. BELIN. Which window?
Mr. HAYGOOD. On the southeast corner.
Mr. BELIN. South side or east side?
Mr. HAYGOOD. On the southeast corner facing south.
Mr. BELIN. See any paper bags or anything around there?
Mr. HAYGOOD. Yes; there was a lunch bag there. You could call it a lunch bag.
Mr. BALL. Where was that?
Mr. HAYGOOD. There at the same location where the shells were.

Eugene Boone

Mentions seeing the chicken before discovering the rifle in his Oral History with the 6th Floor Museum.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2018, 08:12:47 AM by Colin Crow »

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #270 on: September 25, 2018, 07:35:24 AM »


Offline Howard Gee

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #271 on: September 25, 2018, 01:34:24 PM »
I wasn't expecting an answer from you Howard.

But I was expecting one from you. Your theory pal, not mine.

Again, not surprised you don't have an answer.

When, where and how did the Stooge Conspiracy begin ?