Author Topic: A "mauser" by any other name...  (Read 20067 times)

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Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: A "mauser" by any other name...
« Reply #210 on: March 20, 2017, 11:44:23 PM »
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And doesn't it seem unbelievable that 5 guys - cops - don't think to look for caliber first.
...and then Weitzman is still there when Fritz ejects the shell

Fritz looks at the shell and calls the caliber out loud
..and yet Weitzman  & Boone write the very specific number 7.65

Fritz looks at the shell and calls the caliber out loud

Where is it that anybody called out the caliber of the shells as 6.5mm.....??     

Online Michael Capasse

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Re: A "mauser" by any other name...
« Reply #211 on: March 20, 2017, 11:53:54 PM »
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Fritz looks at the shell and calls the caliber out loud

Where is it that anybody called out the caliber of the shells as 6.5mm.....??    

Mr. FRITZ. I am not too sure about Mauser rifles myself. But I am certainly sure that I never did give anyone any different caliber than the one that shows on the cartridges.

You don't the gun...
what's the first thing you look for when you pull that shell out?
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 11:56:19 PM
by Michael Capasse
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Online Michael Capasse

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Re: A "mauser" by any other name...
« Reply #212 on: March 21, 2017, 12:01:02 AM »
Let's look at them both side by side
and wonder how it could be misunderstood

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« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 12:03:24 AM
by Michael Capasse
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Online Bill Chapman

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Re: A "mauser" by any other name...
« Reply #213 on: March 21, 2017, 12:15:37 AM »
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How do you know the 1891 Mauser was not a copy of the Carcano? The bolts are almost identical. Mauser did not become the pace setter until the introduction of the Model 1898 Mauser, and made a few poor rifles prior to the Model 1891.

I don't need to know anything, other than that the Carcano resembled the Mauser close enough to easily have been mistaken for same.. according to experts. Go ahead and ignore that.

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: A "mauser" by any other name...
« Reply #214 on: March 21, 2017, 12:17:10 AM »
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Mr. FRITZ. I am not too sure about Mauser rifles myself. But I am certainly sure that I never did give anyone any different caliber than the one that shows on the cartridges.

You don't the gun...
what's the first thing you look for when you pull that shell out?


Mr. FRITZ. I am not too sure about Mauser rifles myself. But I am certainly sure that I never did give anyone any different caliber than the one that shows on the cartridges.

Micheal, I don't like to take this approach as a way of rebutting your point......But I wouldn't believe anything Fritz uttered to LBJ's cover up committee. but I'm disappointed that you would cite anything that Fritz said.....

Simply because he denied anything is worthless....However.....I'm compelled to agree with him that it would be insane to think even Fritz would say that the cartridges were 7.65 mauser when he knew that many others had seen the 6.5mm rifle shells.    

Online Jerry Organ

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Re: A "mauser" by any other name...
« Reply #215 on: March 21, 2017, 12:54:22 AM »
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Mr. FRITZ. I am not too sure about Mauser rifles myself. But I am certainly sure that I never did give anyone any different caliber than the one that shows on the cartridges.

You don't the gun...
what's the first thing you look for when you pull that shell out?


Sorry. I can't see how the Fritz statement is calling the caliber out loud by reading the shell.

Mr. BALL - There is one question. Did you hear anybody refer to this rifle as a Mauser that day?
Mr. BOONE - Yes, I did. And at first, not knowing what it was, I thought it was 7.65 Mauser.
Mr. BALL - Who referred to it as a Mauser that day?
Mr. BOONE - I believe Captain Fritz. He had knelt down there to look at it, and before he removed it, not knowing what it was, he said that is what it looks like. This is when Lieutenant Day, I believe his name is, the ID man was getting ready to photograph it.
We were just discussing it back and forth. And he said it looks like a 7.65 Mauser.

     (Note: Walt thinks Boone was referring to Day with
     "Fritz", and referring to Studebaker with "Day".)

They're standing around speculating about the rifle, not reading off a shell or rifle marking ("discussing it back and forth"). I don't think Day and Fritz were going to review the details they were to find out with Boone and Weitzman, who left some time after the shell was ejected. In hindsight, Fritz should have told them not to discuss or write down anything speculative when he saw them leaving.

Online Michael Capasse

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Re: A "mauser" by any other name...
« Reply #216 on: March 21, 2017, 02:12:14 AM »
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Sorry. I can't see how the Fritz statement is calling the caliber out loud by reading the shell.

Mr. BALL - There is one question. Did you hear anybody refer to this rifle as a Mauser that day?
Mr. BOONE - Yes, I did. And at first, not knowing what it was, I thought it was 7.65 Mauser.
Mr. BALL - Who referred to it as a Mauser that day?
Mr. BOONE - I believe Captain Fritz. He had knelt down there to look at it, and before he removed it, not knowing what it was, he said that is what it looks like. This is when Lieutenant Day, I believe his name is, the ID man was getting ready to photograph it.
We were just discussing it back and forth. And he said it looks like a 7.65 Mauser.

     (Note: Walt thinks Boone was referring to Day with
     "Fritz", and referring to Studebaker with "Day".)

They're standing around speculating about the rifle, not reading off a shell or rifle marking ("discussing it back and forth"). I don't think Day and Fritz were going to review the details they were to find out with Boone and Weitzman, who left some time after the shell was ejected. In hindsight, Fritz should have told them not to discuss or write down anything speculative when he saw them leaving.


Wetzman is there

Mr. BALL - In this statement, it says Captain Fritz took charge of the rifle and ejected one live round from the chamber.
Mr. WEITZMAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - He did eject one live round?
Mr. WEITZMAN - Yes, sir; he did eject one live round, one live round, yes, sir. You said remove anything from the rifle; I was not considering that a shell.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 02:24:37 AM
by Michael Capasse
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