Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
Mark Valenti, Gary Craig and 6 Guests are viewing this topic.

Author Topic: Oswald's Jacket  (Read 10343 times)

Online Gary Craig

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 111
  • The human mind is our fundamental resource. JFK
Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #670 on: February 13, 2018, 02:13:24 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
The bag was stained very dark by the method of esting the FBI used on 11/23/63..... If the bag isn't stained dark the photo was taken PRIOR to the testing....


JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #670 on: February 13, 2018, 02:13:24 PM »


Online Martin Weidmann

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 231
Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #671 on: February 13, 2018, 02:26:06 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The bag was stained very dark by the method of esting the FBI used on 11/23/63..... If the bag isn't stained dark the photo was taken PRIOR to the testing....

Paul Stombaugh received the blanket and the paper bag at the same time; 7:30 a.m. November 23, 1963
 
Mr. EISENBERG. When did you receive this blanket, Mr. Stombaugh?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. This was approximately 7:30 a.m., on the morning of November 23, 1963.

<>

Mr. Stombaugh, I now hand you a homemade paper bag, Commission Exhibit 142, which parenthetically has also received another Exhibit No. 626, and ask you whether you are familiar with this item?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. Yes; I am.
Mr. EISENBERG. Does that have your mark on it?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. At the time I examined this, it was to be treated for latent fingerprints subsequent to my examination, and in a case like this I will not put a mark on the item itself because my mark might cover a latent fingerprint which is later brought up, and therefore obscure it.
In this particular instance, I made a drawing of this bag on my notes with the various sizes and description of it to refresh my memory at a later date.
Mr. EISENBERG. And it is--looking at those notes and as you remember now-- this is the bag?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. This is the bag.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, this bag has an area of very light-brown color, and the greater portion of the area is a quite dark-brownish color. What was the color when you originally received it?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. When I originally received this it was a light-brown color.
Mr. EISENBERG. Which is at one end of the bag?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. One end of the bag.
Mr. EISENBERG. The tape is also two colors, one a lightish brown and the other a darkish brown. What color was the tape when you received it?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. The tape also was light brown.
Mr. EISENBERG. Could you turn the bag over? Was it the color that shows as a lighter yellowish-type of brown?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. Yes; a yellow-brown shade.
Mr. EISENBERG. When did you receive it, by the way, Mr. Stombaugh?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. This was received on November 23, 7:30 a.m, 1963.


Stombaugh did not mark the bag because "it was to be treated for latent fingerprints subsequent to my examination".

Sebastian Latona subsequently received the paper bag that same morning.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Latona, do your notes show when you received this paper bag?
Mr. LATONA. I received this paper bag on the morning of November 23, 1963.
Mr. EISENBERG. And when did you conduct your examination?
Mr. LATONA. I conducted my examination on that same day.

<>

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, Mr. Latona, how did you proceed to conduct your examination for fingerprints on this object?
Mr. LATONA. Well, an effort was made to remove as much of the powder as possible. And then this was subjected to what is known as the iodine-fuming method, which simply means flowing iodine fumes, which are developed by what is known as an iodine-fuming gun--it is a very simple affair, in which there are a couple of tubes attached to each other, having in one of them iodine crystals. And by simply blowing through one end, you get iodine fumes.
The iodine fumes are brought in as close contact to the surface as possible And if there are any prints which contain certain fatty material or protein material, the iodine fumes simply discolor it to a sort of brownish color. And of course such prints as are developed are photographed for record purposes.
That was done in this case here, but no latent prints were developed.
The next step then was to try an additional method, by chemicals. This was subsequently processed by a 3-percent solution of silver nitrate. The processing with silver nitrate resulted in developing two latent prints. One is what we call a latent palmprint, and the other is what we call a latent fingerprint.

<>

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, Mr. Latona, looking at that bag I see that almost all of it is an extremely dark brown color, except that there are patches of a lighter brown, a manila-paper brown. Could you explain why there are these two colors on the bag?
Mr. LATONA. Yes. The dark portions of the paper bag are where the silver nitrate has taken effect.


Ergo; the photograph showing the blanket and the bag together was either taken prior to 7:30 a.m. November 23, 1963 or during Stombaugh's examination


« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 03:08:57 PM by Martin Weidmann »

Online Walt Cakebread

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 427
Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #672 on: February 13, 2018, 03:30:11 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Paul Stombaugh received the blanket and the paper bag at the same time; 7:30 a.m. November 23, 1963
 
Mr. EISENBERG. When did you receive this blanket, Mr. Stombaugh?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. This was approximately 7:30 a.m., on the morning of November 23, 1963.

<>

Mr. Stombaugh, I now hand you a homemade paper bag, Commission Exhibit 142, which parenthetically has also received another Exhibit No. 626, and ask you whether you are familiar with this item?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. Yes; I am.
Mr. EISENBERG. Does that have your mark on it?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. At the time I examined this, it was to be treated for latent fingerprints subsequent to my examination, and in a case like this I will not put a mark on the item itself because my mark might cover a latent fingerprint which is later brought up, and therefore obscure it.
In this particular instance, I made a drawing of this bag on my notes with the various sizes and description of it to refresh my memory at a later date.
Mr. EISENBERG. And it is--looking at those notes and as you remember now-- this is the bag?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. This is the bag.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, this bag has an area of very light-brown color, and the greater portion of the area is a quite dark-brownish color. What was the color when you originally received it?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. When I originally received this it was a light-brown color.
Mr. EISENBERG. Which is at one end of the bag?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. One end of the bag.
Mr. EISENBERG. The tape is also two colors, one a lightish brown and the other a darkish brown. What color was the tape when you received it?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. The tape also was light brown.
Mr. EISENBERG. Could you turn the bag over? Was it the color that shows as a lighter yellowish-type of brown?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. Yes; a yellow-brown shade.
Mr. EISENBERG. When did you receive it, by the way, Mr. Stombaugh?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. This was received on November 23, 7:30 a.m, 1963.


Stombaugh did not mark the bag because "it was to be treated for latent fingerprints subsequent to my examination".

Sebastian Latona subsequently received the paper bag that same morning.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Latona, do your notes show when you received this paper bag?
Mr. LATONA. I received this paper bag on the morning of November 23, 1963.
Mr. EISENBERG. And when did you conduct your examination?
Mr. LATONA. I conducted my examination on that same day.

<>

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, Mr. Latona, how did you proceed to conduct your examination for fingerprints on this object?
Mr. LATONA. Well, an effort was made to remove as much of the powder as possible. And then this was subjected to what is known as the iodine-fuming method, which simply means flowing iodine fumes, which are developed by what is known as an iodine-fuming gun--it is a very simple affair, in which there are a couple of tubes attached to each other, having in one of them iodine crystals. And by simply blowing through one end, you get iodine fumes.
The iodine fumes are brought in as close contact to the surface as possible And if there are any prints which contain certain fatty material or protein material, the iodine fumes simply discolor it to a sort of brownish color. And of course such prints as are developed are photographed for record purposes.
That was done in this case here, but no latent prints were developed.
The next step then was to try an additional method, by chemicals. This was subsequently processed by a 3-percent solution of silver nitrate. The processing with silver nitrate resulted in developing two latent prints. One is what we call a latent palmprint, and the other is what we call a latent fingerprint.

<>

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, Mr. Latona, looking at that bag I see that almost all of it is an extremely dark brown color, except that there are patches of a lighter brown, a manila-paper brown. Could you explain why there are these two colors on the bag?
Mr. LATONA. Yes. The dark portions of the paper bag are where the silver nitrate has taken effect.


Ergo; the photograph showing the blanket and the bag together was either taken prior to 7:30 a.m. November 23, 1963 or during Stombaugh's examination

Ergo; the photograph showing the blanket and the bag together was either taken prior to 7:30 a.m. November 23, 1963 or during Stombaugh's examination

Since it's obvious that the photo shows that blanket was in contact with the paper sack then any blanket fiber found in the sack could have been deposited there at the rime the two items were together.....So the blanket fiber in the paper sack s useless as evidence....

Online Gary Craig

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 111
  • The human mind is our fundamental resource. JFK
Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #673 on: February 13, 2018, 03:39:48 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Ergo; the photograph showing the blanket and the bag together was either taken prior to 7:30 a.m. November 23, 1963 or during Stombaugh's examination

Since it's obvious that the photo shows that blanket was in contact with the paper sack then any blanket fiber found in the sack could have been deposited there at the rime the two items were together.....So the blanket fiber in the paper sack s useless as evidence....

The significance of fibers from the blanket in the bag would be that they were transfered from the Carcano,
which allegedly was wrapped in it for months. However since no fibers from the blanket were found on the rifle the logical explanation is cross contamination or worse the planting of evidence. IMO

Online Walt Cakebread

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 427
Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #674 on: February 13, 2018, 04:01:52 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
The significance of fibers from the blanket in the bag would be that they were transfered from the Carcano,
which allegedly was wrapped in it for months. However since no fibers from the blanket were found on the rifle the logical explanation is cross contamination or worse the planting of evidence. IMO

since no fibers from the blanket were found on the rifle

You're right there was not a single blanket fiber found on the Carcano.....Which is an astronomical improbability ( maybe impossible) if that rifle had been wrapped in that blanket....   

IMO that rifle was NOT ever wrapped in that blanket.....But Marina at least thought that "SOMETHING" like rifle was in that blanket...as did Mike Paine....   

Can anybody think of a plausible explanation for no fibers being found on the rifle?   I'm familiar with carcanos and they all have sharp points and irregularities that would snag a loosely woven blanket.   So there should have been TUFTS of blanket material on that rifle.......( The FBI claimed that a tuft of shirt material was found clinging to the butt of the rifle, so tufts of blanket should definitely have been adhering to the rifle) 

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #674 on: February 13, 2018, 04:01:52 PM »


Online Walt Cakebread

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 427
Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #675 on: February 13, 2018, 05:28:11 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
since no fibers from the blanket were found on the rifle

You're right there was not a single blanket fiber found on the Carcano.....Which is an astronomical improbability ( maybe impossible) if that rifle had been wrapped in that blanket....   

IMO that rifle was NOT ever wrapped in that blanket.....But Marina at least thought that "SOMETHING" like rifle was in that blanket...as did Mike Paine....   

Can anybody think of a plausible explanation for no fibers being found on the rifle?   I'm familiar with carcanos and they all have sharp points and irregularities that would snag a loosely woven blanket.   So there should have been TUFTS of blanket material on that rifle.......( The FBI claimed that a tuft of shirt material was found clinging to the butt of the rifle, so tufts of blanket should definitely have been adhering to the rifle)

Either the rifle was carefully cleaned by wiping it with a lint free cloth and a vacuum cleaner...or it was NOT the rifle that had been in the blanket....

Personally I lean toward the cleaning and vacuuming of the rifle ....   But that would mean that it had been removed from the garage prior to 11/22/63.   ( A distinct possibility because the only reference to the presence of the rifle in the blanket was by Marina and she said she had seen it several weeks prior to 11/22/63....)

Offline John Iacoletti

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 632
Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #676 on: February 13, 2018, 07:04:04 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Stombaugh examined the bag on the 23rd.  Day testified that the photo was taken on the the 26th, as they were turning that evidence over to the FBI for the 2nd time.  Therefore, Stombaugh analyzed the bag three days BEFORE the photo, that you posted in an attempt to show contamination, was even taken.  Prove Day was wrong about the date?

Prove that Day was right about the date.  It's your claim.  I understand that you believe anything a cop says (as long as it fits your biases anyway), but that doesn't prove that it's actually true.  What was the basis of Day's identifying the date?  Let me pick a random photo on your phone or camera or photo album from months ago and see it you can identify what date it was taken.

Quote
As for the "other photo", no one here has shown that it was taken before Stombaugh examined those two items.  Therefore, why mention it?

No one here has shown that the other photo was taken after Stombaugh examined those two items.  Why the double standard?  Why are items of evidence being set out on tables together at any time?

What we have here is a piece of evidence that could have been contaminated by improper evidence handling and some fibers on a bag that can't even be uniquely tied to a blanket, and that somehow shows that a particular rifle was in that particular bag?  In what universe?

Offline John Iacoletti

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 632
Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #677 on: February 13, 2018, 07:05:53 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You'll find the date that the photo was taken on page 6.

Thanks Tim.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #677 on: February 13, 2018, 07:05:53 PM »


Offline Bill Brown

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 453
Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #678 on: February 14, 2018, 03:16:58 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
The bag was stained very dark by the method of esting the FBI used on 11/23/63..... If the bag isn't stained dark the photo was taken PRIOR to the testing....

Means nothing.

There was a period of time between when Stombaugh analyzed the bag and when Latona put the silver nitrate on it.

Just because the bag in the photo does not have the silver nitrate on it doesn't automatically mean that Stombaugh has yet to analyze it.

Offline Tim Nickerson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 145
Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #679 on: February 14, 2018, 03:23:26 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Means nothing.

There was a period of time between when Stombaugh analyzed the bag and when Latona put the silver nitrate on it.

Just because the bag in the photo does not have the silver nitrate on it doesn't automatically mean that Stombaugh has yet to analyze it.

Very true Bill.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #679 on: February 14, 2018, 03:23:26 AM »