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Author Topic: Oswald's Light-Colored Jacket  (Read 74764 times)

Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #380 on: February 08, 2018, 11:27:32 AM »
You stopped making sense a while back.

Great contribution.  Keep up the good work.

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #381 on: February 08, 2018, 01:09:08 PM »
You stopped making sense a while back.

Not only that but he is lousy at "translations" as well

Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #382 on: February 08, 2018, 01:19:25 PM »
You stopped making sense a while back.

Not only that but he is lousy at "translations" as well



Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #383 on: February 08, 2018, 01:36:41 PM »
In an FBI report dated 12/13/63, William Smith stated that the man he saw shoot Tippit was wearing a "light brown jacket".

This is, of course, the same man Markham saw shoot Tippit, who was wearing a "light short jacket" and who she later identified as Lee Oswald.

This is, of course, the same man who Scoggins saw wearing a "light-colored jacket" with a gun in his hands within a spit second of hearing shots and seeing Tippit fall to the ground.  Scoggins identified this man, who he watched turn the corner from Tenth and run down Patton, as Lee Oswald.

This is, of course, the same man who Callaway saw come from the corner of Tenth and run down Patton in his direction, the man who Callaway said was wearing a "light tannish gray windbreaker jacket" and had a gun in his hands.  Callaway positively identified this man as Lee Oswald.

This is, of course, the same man seen by Barbara Davis, Virginia Davis and Sam Guinyard, who all stated that the man was Lee Oswald, had a gun in his hands and was wearing a jacket.

Why did Oswald ditch his jacket by the time he was seen by Brewer on Jefferson?
« Last Edit: February 08, 2018, 01:39:02 PM by Bill Brown »

Offline Gary Craig

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Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #384 on: February 08, 2018, 02:23:02 PM »
In an FBI report dated 12/13/63, William Smith stated that the man he saw shoot Tippit was wearing a "light brown jacket".

This is, of course, the same man Markham saw shoot Tippit, who was wearing a "light short jacket" and who she later identified as Lee Oswald.

This is, of course, the same man who Scoggins saw wearing a "light-colored jacket" with a gun in his hands within a spit second of hearing shots and seeing Tippit fall to the ground.  Scoggins identified this man, who he watched turn the corner from Tenth and run down Patton, as Lee Oswald.

This is, of course, the same man who Callaway saw come from the corner of Tenth and run down Patton in his direction, the man who Callaway said was wearing a "light tannish gray windbreaker jacket" and had a gun in his hands.  Callaway positively identified this man as Lee Oswald.

This is, of course, the same man seen by Barbara Davis, Virginia Davis and Sam Guinyard, who all stated that the man was Lee Oswald, had a gun in his hands and was wearing a jacket.

Why did Oswald ditch his jacket by the time he was seen by Brewer on Jefferson?

"This is, of course, the same man Markham saw shoot Tippit, who was wearing a "light short jacket"



"and who she later identified as Lee Oswald."

from
"VINNIE IT IS ROUND"
by Mark Lane


                     "The Commission claimed that Mrs. Markham identified Lee Harvey Oswald as the man who shot the policeman at a line up on November 22 and that in testimony before the Commission, Mrs. Markham confirmed herpositive identification of Lee Harvey Oswald as the man she saw kill Officer Tippit. Captain Fritz - who needed that identification real quickly -- testified that the lineup was hurriedly arranged at 4:30 that afternoon, less than three and a half hours after Tippit's death and less than that after Oswald's arrest. Mrs Markham was "quite hysterical"when she arrived at police headquarters. Her state and the atmosphere in the lineup room are best described by therecord of her testimony."

Q: Now when you went into the room you looked these people over, these four men?

Markham: Yes , sir.

Q: Did you recognize anyone in the lineup?

Markham: No, sir

Q: You did not? Did you see anybody-I have asked you that question before-did you recognize anybody from their face?

          "Counsel wished to remind Mrs. Markham that when he had prepared her for her testimony, before
a record of her answers was made, the matter had been discussed. To prepare a witness for testimony may
be acceptable where adversary and hostile cross-examination is expected, and it is also a legitimate way of
preventing repetition and irrelevant conjecture. The record of the Warren Commission, however, reveals no
such cross-examination and was burdened to such a degree by repetition and irrelevance that the initial
preparation seems to have been for the purpose of leading the witness to give an appropiate answer."


Markham: From their face, no.

Q: Did you identify anybody in these four people?

Markham: I didn't know nobody.

Q: I know you didn't know nobody, but did anybody in that lineup look like anybody you had seen before?

Markham: No. I had never seen none of them, none of these men.

Q: No one of the four?

Markham: No one of them.

Q: No one of the four?

Markham: No, sir.

        "At this point counsel, a teacher of criminal law and procedure at the University of Southern California anda member of the U.S. Judical Conference Advisory Committee on Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure, asked arather leading question. Mrs. Markham said that she recognized no one at the lineup; counsel tried five times for amore acceptable answer. Then, departing a little from the legal procedure he teaches, he next asked his friendly but disconcerting witness, "Was there a number two man in there?" Mrs. Markham replied, "Number two is the one I picked." Counsel began another question:"I thought you just told me that you hadn't, but Mrs. Markham interrupted to answer inexplicably, "I thought you wanted me to describe their clothing."

Counsel then inquired:


Q: You recognized him from his appearance?

Markham: I asked-I looked at him. When I saw this man I wasn't sure, but I had cold chills just run all over me.

        "A mystical identification at best. However, the Commission was satisfied that its lawyer had at last
obtained the right answer: "Addressing itself solely to the probative value of Mrs. Markham's contemporaneous discription of the gunman and her identification of Oswald at a police lineup, the Commission considers her testimony reliable."

« Last Edit: February 08, 2018, 02:48:30 PM by Gary Craig »

Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #385 on: February 08, 2018, 02:31:06 PM »
Mr. BALL. Was there a number two man in there?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Number two is the one I picked.
Mr. BALL. Well, I thought you just told me that you hadn't--
Mrs. MARKHAM. I thought you wanted me to describe their clothing.
Mr. BALL. No. I wanted to know if that day when you were in there if you saw anyone in there--
Mrs. MARKHAM. Number two.
Mr. BALL. What did you say when you saw number two?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Well, let me tell you. I said the second man, and they kept asking me which one, which one. I said, number two. When I said number two, I just got weak.
Mr. BALL. What about number two, what did you mean when you said number two?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Number two was the man I saw shoot the policeman.

Offline Gary Craig

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Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #386 on: February 08, 2018, 02:47:44 PM »
In an FBI report dated 12/13/63, William Smith stated that the man he saw shoot Tippit was wearing a "light brown jacket".

This is, of course, the same man Markham saw shoot Tippit, who was wearing a "light short jacket" and who she later identified as Lee Oswald.

This is, of course, the same man who Scoggins saw wearing a "light-colored jacket" with a gun in his hands within a spit second of hearing shots and seeing Tippit fall to the ground.  Scoggins identified this man, who he watched turn the corner from Tenth and run down Patton, as Lee Oswald.

This is, of course, the same man who Callaway saw come from the corner of Tenth and run down Patton in his direction, the man who Callaway said was wearing a "light tannish gray windbreaker jacket" and had a gun in his hands.  Callaway positively identified this man as Lee Oswald.

This is, of course, the same man seen by Barbara Davis, Virginia Davis and Sam Guinyard, who all stated that the man was Lee Oswald, had a gun in his hands and was wearing a jacket.

Why did Oswald ditch his jacket by the time he was seen by Brewer on Jefferson?

You forgot the witness who got the best look at Tippit's killer and whose description of the murderer doesn't

match a photo taken of LHO while in DPD custody on 11/22/63.

Testimony Of Domingo Benavides

Mr. BELIN - Where were you when your vehicle stopped?
Mr. BENAVIDES - About 15 foot, just directly across the street and maybe a car length away from the police car.

~snip~

Mr. Belin: Let me ask you now, I would like you to relate again the action of the man with the gun as you saw him now.

Mr. Benavides: As I saw him, I really--I mean really got a good view of the man after the bullets were fired he had just turned. He was just turning away........

~snip~

Mr. BENAVIDES - I remember the back of his head seemed like his hairline was sort of--looked like his hairline sort of went square instead of tapered off. and he looked like he needed a haircut for about 2 weeks, but his hair didn't taper off, it kind of went down and squared off and made his head look fiat in back.

~snip~



Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #387 on: February 08, 2018, 02:59:20 PM »
You forgot the witness who got the best look at Tippit's killer and whose description of the murderer doesn't

match a photo taken of LHO while in DPD custody on 11/22/63.

Testimony Of Domingo Benavides

Mr. BELIN - Where were you when your vehicle stopped?
Mr. BENAVIDES - About 15 foot, just directly across the street and maybe a car length away from the police car.

~snip~

Mr. Belin: Let me ask you now, I would like you to relate again the action of the man with the gun as you saw him now.

Mr. Benavides: As I saw him, I really--I mean really got a good view of the man after the bullets were fired he had just turned. He was just turning away........

~snip~

Mr. BENAVIDES - I remember the back of his head seemed like his hairline was sort of--looked like his hairline sort of went square instead of tapered off. and he looked like he needed a haircut for about 2 weeks, but his hair didn't taper off, it kind of went down and squared off and made his head look fiat in back.

~snip~




Quote
You forgot the witness who got the best look at Tippit's killer...

You keep saying this, but it can definitely be argued that Ted Callaway got a better look at the culprit than did Benavides, unless you're going to go the goofy Iacoletti route and claim that Callaway did not see Tippit's killer.


Quote
Mr. BENAVIDES - I remember the back of his head seemed like his hairline was sort of--looked like his hairline sort of went square instead of tapered off. and he looked like he needed a haircut for about 2 weeks, but his hair didn't taper off, it kind of went down and squared off and made his head look fiat in back.

Aren't you aware that terms like the above are relative only to the person being quoted?

This squared off hairline argument is almost as dumb as your argument that Oswald wasn't wearing the jacket because it was a size medium and Oswald was a size small.

Offline Gary Craig

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Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #388 on: February 08, 2018, 03:14:15 PM »

You keep saying this, but it can definitely be argued that Ted Callaway got a better look at the culprit than did Benavides, unless you're going to go the goofy Iacoletti route and claim that Callaway did not see Tippit's killer.


Aren't you aware that terms like the above are relative only to the person being quoted?

This squared off hairline argument is almost as dumb as your argument that Oswald wasn't wearing the jacket because it was a size medium and Oswald was a size small.

"but it can definitely be argued that Ted Callaway got a better look at the culprit than did Benavides,"

Argue away.




TESTIMONY OF TED CALLAWAY

~snip~

Mr. BALL. He was crossing Patton?
Mr. CALLAWAY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Was that to the south or the north of the taxicab? Closer to you than the taxicab?
Mr. CALLAWAY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Was he running or walking?
Mr. CALLAWAY. He was running.

~snip~

Mr. BALL. About what distance was he away from you--the closest that he ever was to you?
Mr. CALLAWAY. About 56 feet.

~snip~


Testimony Of Domingo Benavides

Mr. BELIN - Where were you when your vehicle stopped?
Mr. BENAVIDES - About 15 foot, just directly across the street and maybe a car length away from the police car.

~snip~

Mr. Belin: Let me ask you now, I would like you to relate again the action of the man with the gun as you saw him now.

Mr. Benavides: As I saw him, I really--I mean really got a good view of the man after the bullets were fired he had just turned. He was just turning away........

Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #389 on: February 08, 2018, 03:19:35 PM »
"but it can definitely be argued that Ted Callaway got a better look at the culprit than did Benavides,"

Argue away.




TESTIMONY OF TED CALLAWAY

~snip~

Mr. BALL. He was crossing Patton?
Mr. CALLAWAY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Was that to the south or the north of the taxicab? Closer to you than the taxicab?
Mr. CALLAWAY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Was he running or walking?
Mr. CALLAWAY. He was running.

~snip~

Mr. BALL. About what distance was he away from you--the closest that he ever was to you?
Mr. CALLAWAY. About 56 feet.

~snip~


Testimony Of Domingo Benavides

Mr. BELIN - Where were you when your vehicle stopped?
Mr. BENAVIDES - About 15 foot, just directly across the street and maybe a car length away from the police car.

~snip~

Mr. Belin: Let me ask you now, I would like you to relate again the action of the man with the gun as you saw him now.

Mr. Benavides: As I saw him, I really--I mean really got a good view of the man after the bullets were fired he had just turned. He was just turning away........


Callaway estimated that he was about fifty-six feet from Oswald as Oswald fled the scene.  Anyone who is a baseball fan knows that, in the Major Leagues, the distance from the pitcher's mound to the batter is sixty feet and six inches.

Fifty-six feet is less than nineteen yards.  Any golfer knows that nineteen yards is not far at all.

Yet, you foolishly imply that fifty-six feet is supposed to be some great distance.

Callaway talked to the man.  Benavides ducked down in his truck.

Benavides didn't feel that he could even identify the killer and that is why he did not go to a lineup.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2018, 03:21:55 PM by Bill Brown »

 

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