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Author Topic: Oswald's Light-Colored Jacket  (Read 73701 times)

Online John Mytton

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Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #140 on: January 22, 2018, 07:14:49 AM »

Only some medication that prevents me from breaking out in a rash whenever I am dealing with you.

No you didn't.... You just cherry-picked some quotes that do not hold water upon closer examination.




No, because you don't know the evidence, that same evidence that ironically you are trying to debate, you've been here for years and years and debated the same topics again and again yet you still don't learn, it's tragic!

Anyway I presented the majority of eyewitnesses who described a light coloured jacket whereas as you've admitted, you're drugged up to the eyeballs! I rest my case.


Mr. BENAVIDES - I would say he was about your size, and he had a light-beige jacket, and was lightweight.
Mr. BELIN - Did it have buttons or a zipper, or do you remember?
Mr. BENAVIDES - It seemed like it was a zipper-type jacket.

Mrs. MARY BROCK, 4310 Utah, Dallas, Texas, advised that on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, she was at the Ballew Texaco Service Station located in the 600 block of Jefferson Street, Dallas, Texas. She advised that at approximately 1:30 PM a white male described as approximately 30 years of age; 5 feet, 10 inches; light?colored complexion, wearing light clothing, came past her walking at a fast pace, wearing a light?colored jacket and with his hands in his pockets.

Mr. BALL. What did you tell them you saw?
Mr. CALLAWAY. I told them he had some dark trousers and a light tannish gray windbreaker jacket, and I told him that he was fair complexion, dark hair.

Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what he had on?
Mrs. DAVIS. He had on a light-brown-tan jacket.

Mr. BALL. How was this man dressed that had the pistol in his hand?
Mr. GUINYARD. He had on a pair of black britches and a brown shirt and a lithe sort of light-gray-looking jacket.
Mr. BALL. A gray jacket.
Mr. GUINYARD. Yes; a light gray jacket and a white T-shirt.

Mr. BALL. Did you recognize him from his clothing?
Mrs. MARKHAM. He had on a light short jacket, dark trousers. I looked at his clothing, but I looked at his face, too.

Mr. BELIN. Let me ask you this now. When you first saw this man, had the police car stopped or not?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Yes; he stopped. When I saw he stopped, then I looked to see why he was stopping, you see, and I saw this man with a light-colored jacket on.


Btw don't forget the eyewitnesses who identified the light coloured jacket and you know what besides one of the Davis sisters I can't find any other description that varies, so stick that in your pipe and smoke it!

JIMMY EARL BURT,  He described this man as a white male, approximately 5'8". He was wearing a light colored short jacket.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/burt.htm

Mr. BALL. This is Commission's Exhibit 162, a grey, zippered jacket. Have you ever seen this before?
Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir; that looks like what he had on. A jacket.
Mr. BALL. That is the jacket he had on?
Mr. SMITH. Yes.




JohnM




Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #141 on: January 22, 2018, 07:21:41 AM »


No, because you don't know the evidence, that same evidence that ironically you are trying to debate, you've been here for years and years and debated the same topics again and again yet you still don't learn, it's tragic!

Anyway I presented the majority of eyewitnesses who described a light coloured jacket whereas as you've admitted, you're drugged up to the eyeballs! I rest my case.


Mr. BENAVIDES - I would say he was about your size, and he had a light-beige jacket, and was lightweight.
Mr. BELIN - Did it have buttons or a zipper, or do you remember?
Mr. BENAVIDES - It seemed like it was a zipper-type jacket.

Mrs. MARY BROCK, 4310 Utah, Dallas, Texas, advised that on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, she was at the Ballew Texaco Service Station located in the 600 block of Jefferson Street, Dallas, Texas. She advised that at approximately 1:30 PM a white male described as approximately 30 years of age; 5 feet, 10 inches; light?colored complexion, wearing light clothing, came past her walking at a fast pace, wearing a light?colored jacket and with his hands in his pockets.

Mr. BALL. What did you tell them you saw?
Mr. CALLAWAY. I told them he had some dark trousers and a light tannish gray windbreaker jacket, and I told him that he was fair complexion, dark hair.

Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what he had on?
Mrs. DAVIS. He had on a light-brown-tan jacket.

Mr. BALL. How was this man dressed that had the pistol in his hand?
Mr. GUINYARD. He had on a pair of black britches and a brown shirt and a lithe sort of light-gray-looking jacket.
Mr. BALL. A gray jacket.
Mr. GUINYARD. Yes; a light gray jacket and a white T-shirt.

Mr. BALL. Did you recognize him from his clothing?
Mrs. MARKHAM. He had on a light short jacket, dark trousers. I looked at his clothing, but I looked at his face, too.

Mr. BELIN. Let me ask you this now. When you first saw this man, had the police car stopped or not?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Yes; he stopped. When I saw he stopped, then I looked to see why he was stopping, you see, and I saw this man with a light-colored jacket on.


Btw don't forget the eyewitnesses who identified the light coloured jacket and you know what besides one of the Davis sisters I can't find any other description that varies, so stick that in your pipe and smoke it!

JIMMY EARL BURT,  He described this man as a white male, approximately 5'8". He was wearing a light colored short jacket.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/burt.htm

Mr. BALL. This is Commission's Exhibit 162, a grey, zippered jacket. Have you ever seen this before?
Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir; that looks like what he had on. A jacket.
Mr. BALL. That is the jacket he had on?
Mr. SMITH. Yes.




JohnM

No, because you don't know the evidence, that same evidence that ironically you are trying to debate, you've been here for years and years

Says the guy who has lived on boards like this for decades and has already written double the number of posts than I have.


and debated the same topics again and again yet you still don't learn, it's tragic!

No, what is really tragic is that in all the time I have been on this board, you have never ever said anything worthwhile for me to learn.

On occassion I do pick up something useful from guys like Jerry Organ and even Bill Brown, but from you.... zilch!

All you do is copy/paste the same old crap time after time...

Online John Mytton

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Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #142 on: January 22, 2018, 07:21:52 AM »
what with Weidmann who can't support his theories with facts

What theories would that be, Johnny?

You wouldn't be making stuff up again, would you now?



Huh? Your theory is clearly that the majority of eyewitnesses didn't see Oswald with a light coloured jacket, otherwise why would you bother arguing with me?

Anyway here's the list that I claimed and in response you have nothing.

Mr. BENAVIDES - I would say he was about your size, and he had a light-beige jacket, and was lightweight.
Mr. BELIN - Did it have buttons or a zipper, or do you remember?
Mr. BENAVIDES - It seemed like it was a zipper-type jacket.

Mrs. MARY BROCK, 4310 Utah, Dallas, Texas, advised that on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, she was at the Ballew Texaco Service Station located in the 600 block of Jefferson Street, Dallas, Texas. She advised that at approximately 1:30 PM a white male described as approximately 30 years of age; 5 feet, 10 inches; light?colored complexion, wearing light clothing, came past her walking at a fast pace, wearing a light?colored jacket and with his hands in his pockets.

Mr. BALL. What did you tell them you saw?
Mr. CALLAWAY. I told them he had some dark trousers and a light tannish gray windbreaker jacket, and I told him that he was fair complexion, dark hair.

Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what he had on?
Mrs. DAVIS. He had on a light-brown-tan jacket.

Mr. BALL. How was this man dressed that had the pistol in his hand?
Mr. GUINYARD. He had on a pair of black britches and a brown shirt and a lithe sort of light-gray-looking jacket.
Mr. BALL. A gray jacket.
Mr. GUINYARD. Yes; a light gray jacket and a white T-shirt.

Mr. BALL. Did you recognize him from his clothing?
Mrs. MARKHAM. He had on a light short jacket, dark trousers. I looked at his clothing, but I looked at his face, too.

Mr. BELIN. Let me ask you this now. When you first saw this man, had the police car stopped or not?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Yes; he stopped. When I saw he stopped, then I looked to see why he was stopping, you see, and I saw this man with a light-colored jacket on.


Btw don't forget the eyewitnesses who identified the light coloured jacket and you know what besides one of the Davis sisters I can't find any other description that varies, so stick that in your pipe and smoke it!

JIMMY EARL BURT,  He described this man as a white male, approximately 5'8". He was wearing a light colored short jacket.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/burt.htm

Mr. BALL. This is Commission's Exhibit 162, a grey, zippered jacket. Have you ever seen this before?
Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir; that looks like what he had on. A jacket.
Mr. BALL. That is the jacket he had on?
Mr. SMITH. Yes.




JohnM

Online John Mytton

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Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #143 on: January 22, 2018, 07:27:19 AM »
No, because you don't know the evidence, that same evidence that ironically you are trying to debate, you've been here for years and years

Says the guy who has lived on boards like this for decades and has already written double the number of posts than I have.


and debated the same topics again and again yet you still don't learn, it's tragic!

No, what is really tragic is that in all the time I have been on this board, you have never ever said anything worthwhile for me to learn.

On occassion I do pick up something useful from guys like Jerry Organ and even Bill Brown, but from you.... zilch!

All you do is copy/paste the same old crap time after time...





Maybe if you had some evidence to refute me then you would post it, but so far we see the typical Weidmann response of attacking the messenger. You are truly not very good at this.



JohnM

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #144 on: January 22, 2018, 07:33:48 AM »


Huh? Your theory is clearly that the majority of eyewitnesses didn't see Oswald with a light coloured jacket, otherwise why would you bother arguing with me?

Anyway here's the list that I claimed and in response you have nothing.

Mr. BENAVIDES - I would say he was about your size, and he had a light-beige jacket, and was lightweight.
Mr. BELIN - Did it have buttons or a zipper, or do you remember?
Mr. BENAVIDES - It seemed like it was a zipper-type jacket.

Mrs. MARY BROCK, 4310 Utah, Dallas, Texas, advised that on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, she was at the Ballew Texaco Service Station located in the 600 block of Jefferson Street, Dallas, Texas. She advised that at approximately 1:30 PM a white male described as approximately 30 years of age; 5 feet, 10 inches; light?colored complexion, wearing light clothing, came past her walking at a fast pace, wearing a light?colored jacket and with his hands in his pockets.

Mr. BALL. What did you tell them you saw?
Mr. CALLAWAY. I told them he had some dark trousers and a light tannish gray windbreaker jacket, and I told him that he was fair complexion, dark hair.

Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what he had on?
Mrs. DAVIS. He had on a light-brown-tan jacket.

Mr. BALL. How was this man dressed that had the pistol in his hand?
Mr. GUINYARD. He had on a pair of black britches and a brown shirt and a lithe sort of light-gray-looking jacket.
Mr. BALL. A gray jacket.
Mr. GUINYARD. Yes; a light gray jacket and a white T-shirt.

Mr. BALL. Did you recognize him from his clothing?
Mrs. MARKHAM. He had on a light short jacket, dark trousers. I looked at his clothing, but I looked at his face, too.

Mr. BELIN. Let me ask you this now. When you first saw this man, had the police car stopped or not?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Yes; he stopped. When I saw he stopped, then I looked to see why he was stopping, you see, and I saw this man with a light-colored jacket on.


Btw don't forget the eyewitnesses who identified the light coloured jacket and you know what besides one of the Davis sisters I can't find any other description that varies, so stick that in your pipe and smoke it!

JIMMY EARL BURT,  He described this man as a white male, approximately 5'8". He was wearing a light colored short jacket.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/burt.htm

Mr. BALL. This is Commission's Exhibit 162, a grey, zippered jacket. Have you ever seen this before?
Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir; that looks like what he had on. A jacket.
Mr. BALL. That is the jacket he had on?
Mr. SMITH. Yes.




JohnM

Huh? Your theory is clearly that the majority of eyewitnesses didn't see Oswald with a light coloured jacket, otherwise why would you bother arguing with me?

Thank you for demonstrating so clearly that you haven't got a clue about what you call "my theory".

And I am not arguing with you. I am simply telling you that your statement is simply not correct.

You should have been paying better attention to the discussion. Perhaps than you would have understood what I was really saying instead of just making something up.

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #145 on: January 22, 2018, 07:35:35 AM »

Maybe if you had some evidence to refute me then you would post it, but so far we see the typical Weidmann response of attacking the messenger. You are truly not very good at this.

JohnM

Say something true or even remotely interesting and see what happens!

Online John Mytton

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Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #146 on: January 22, 2018, 08:08:59 AM »
Huh? Your theory is clearly that the majority of eyewitnesses didn't see Oswald with a light coloured jacket, otherwise why would you bother arguing with me?

Thank you for demonstrating so clearly that you haven't got a clue about what you call "my theory".

And I am not arguing with you. I am simply telling you that your statement is simply not correct.

You should have been paying better attention to the discussion. Perhaps than you would have understood what I was really saying instead of just making something up.




Quote
Thank you for demonstrating so clearly that you haven't got a clue about what you call "my theory".

You really don't understand do you?, you put your theory on the table as your first response.

Quote
And I am not arguing with you.

Exactly, because you have no argument.

Quote
I am simply telling you that your statement is simply not correct.

Your theory that I'm incorrect requires evidence! Well?


I've had enough, you haven't even come close to refuting my original statement and presenting any relevant evidence is obviously beyond you, anyway Martin your continual downer comments are a real sad reflection on who you are, you're just not worth it.



JohnM

Online John Mytton

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Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #147 on: January 22, 2018, 09:09:15 AM »

OK, your shade thing didn't really work with Markham so now you're down to style?

As for the "positively identified", how does that work when she didn't recognize Oswald in the lineup?


Quote
OK, your shade thing didn't really work with Markham

Sorry Sorenson, I can't help it if you have no concept of science, the following graphic speaks for itself the same jacket looks different in different lighting conditions and gives a perfect explanation for some slight shading variations. 



Quote
As for the "positively identified", how does that work when she didn't recognize Oswald in the lineup?

You are so far off base it isn't funny, Markham positively identified Lee Harvey Oswald on the same afternoon and her misinterpretation of a single question months later has no bearing on her first day identification.

Mr. BALL. No. I wanted to know if that day when you were in there if you saw anyone in there--
Mrs. MARKHAM. Number two.
Mr. BALL. What did you say when you saw number two?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Well, let me tell you. I said the second man, and they kept asking me which one, which one. I said, number two. When I said number two, I just got weak.
Mr. BALL. What about number two, what did you mean when you said number two?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Number two was the man I saw shoot the policeman.

Oswald was man number 2.



JohnM

 



Online John Mytton

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Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #148 on: January 22, 2018, 09:12:27 AM »
Are you sure you want to add Burt to the list?

At the intersection of 10th and Patton Streets the man ran south on Patton Street. BURT said he ran to the intersection of 10th and Patton and when he was close enough to Patton Street to see to the south he saw the man running into an alley located between 10th and Jefferson Avenue on Patton Street. The man ran in the alley to the right and would be running west at this point.




Why not add Burt?
Burt saw Oswald run to the intersection of Tenth and Patton, then he lost sight of Oswald.



JohnM

Online John Mytton

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Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #149 on: January 22, 2018, 09:24:20 AM »
Did I avoid Markham?

OK, your shade thing didn't really work with Markham so now you're down to style?

As for the "positively identified", how does that work when she didn't recognize Oswald in the lineup?



As soon as I come across CKs who think it's so important to focus on slight discrepancies in Oswald Jacket, it's immediately obvious that they have never studied any case outside JFK.

In the real world, clothing identification will always show slight discrepancies, in the following list these eyewitnesses all positively identified the same killer at Port Arthur and as per normal the jacket descriptions show variation.

Name of Witness: DUTTON Christian Names: James David       brown jacket
Name of Witness: KINGSTON Christian Names: Ian Gregory     green jacket
Name of Witness: BEEKMAN Christian Names: Michael Dean     ski type jacket, blue, orange and a few other colours on it
Name of Witness: WILLIAMS Christian Names: Colin Sydney    3/4 length jacket, dark in appearance
Name of Witness: WILLIAMS Christian Names: Iris Emelia     He had on a jacket of some description.
Name of Witness: SARGENT Christian Names: Michael Robert   blue jacket
Name of Witness: RIVIERE Christian Names: John Michael     ?High length? black jacket
Name of Witness: OLSON Christian Names: MARY LEE           I think was green
Name of Witness: LEVER Cristian Names: Coralee Helen       dark jacket
Name of Witness: NASH Christian Names: Carolyn Louise      khaki green jacket or

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type jacket
Name of Witness: BALASKO Christian Names: James            black jacket
Name of Witness: McKENNA Christian Names: Rebecca Kate     ski type jacket which was zipped all the way up. it was either navy, blue or grey.



JohnM


 

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