Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
Ray Mitcham and 8 Guests are viewing this topic.

Author Topic: Oswald's Jacket  (Read 10560 times)

Offline Bill Brown

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 453
Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #680 on: February 14, 2018, 03:28:34 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Prove that Day was right about the date.  It's your claim.  I understand that you believe anything a cop says (as long as it fits your biases anyway), but that doesn't prove that it's actually true.  What was the basis of Day's identifying the date?  Let me pick a random photo on your phone or camera or photo album from months ago and see it you can identify what date it was taken.

No one here has shown that the other photo was taken after Stombaugh examined those two items.  Why the double standard?  Why are items of evidence being set out on tables together at any time?

What we have here is a piece of evidence that could have been contaminated by improper evidence handling and some fibers on a bag that can't even be uniquely tied to a blanket, and that somehow shows that a particular rifle was in that particular bag?  In what universe?


Quote
Prove that Day was right about the date.  It's your claim.  I understand that you believe anything a cop says (as long as it fits your biases anyway), but that doesn't prove that it's actually true.  What was the basis of Day's identifying the date?  Let me pick a random photo on your phone or camera or photo album from months ago and see it you can identify what date it was taken.

No.  You prove that Day was wrong about the date the photo was taken.

I already told you that the significance of the date for Day was that the photo was being taken as they were turning over the evidence to the FBI for the 2nd time.


Quote
No one here has shown that the other photo was taken after Stombaugh examined those two items.  Why the double standard?

Just because you haven't followed along doesn't mean there is a double standard.

This is real simple, to those who have paid attention.

The photo was posted in an attempt to supposedly show that there was evidence contamination.


Quote
What we have here is a piece of evidence that could have been contaminated by improper evidence handling and some fibers on a bag that can't even be uniquely tied to a blanket, and that somehow shows that a particular rifle was in that particular bag?  In what universe?

Straw man.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #680 on: February 14, 2018, 03:28:34 AM »


Offline Bill Brown

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 453
Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #681 on: February 14, 2018, 06:25:37 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Paul Stombaugh received the blanket and the paper bag at the same time; 7:30 a.m. November 23, 1963
 
Mr. EISENBERG. When did you receive this blanket, Mr. Stombaugh?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. This was approximately 7:30 a.m., on the morning of November 23, 1963.

<>

Mr. Stombaugh, I now hand you a homemade paper bag, Commission Exhibit 142, which parenthetically has also received another Exhibit No. 626, and ask you whether you are familiar with this item?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. Yes; I am.
Mr. EISENBERG. Does that have your mark on it?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. At the time I examined this, it was to be treated for latent fingerprints subsequent to my examination, and in a case like this I will not put a mark on the item itself because my mark might cover a latent fingerprint which is later brought up, and therefore obscure it.
In this particular instance, I made a drawing of this bag on my notes with the various sizes and description of it to refresh my memory at a later date.
Mr. EISENBERG. And it is--looking at those notes and as you remember now-- this is the bag?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. This is the bag.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, this bag has an area of very light-brown color, and the greater portion of the area is a quite dark-brownish color. What was the color when you originally received it?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. When I originally received this it was a light-brown color.
Mr. EISENBERG. Which is at one end of the bag?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. One end of the bag.
Mr. EISENBERG. The tape is also two colors, one a lightish brown and the other a darkish brown. What color was the tape when you received it?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. The tape also was light brown.
Mr. EISENBERG. Could you turn the bag over? Was it the color that shows as a lighter yellowish-type of brown?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. Yes; a yellow-brown shade.
Mr. EISENBERG. When did you receive it, by the way, Mr. Stombaugh?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. This was received on November 23, 7:30 a.m, 1963.


Stombaugh did not mark the bag because "it was to be treated for latent fingerprints subsequent to my examination".

Sebastian Latona subsequently received the paper bag that same morning.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Latona, do your notes show when you received this paper bag?
Mr. LATONA. I received this paper bag on the morning of November 23, 1963.
Mr. EISENBERG. And when did you conduct your examination?
Mr. LATONA. I conducted my examination on that same day.

<>

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, Mr. Latona, how did you proceed to conduct your examination for fingerprints on this object?
Mr. LATONA. Well, an effort was made to remove as much of the powder as possible. And then this was subjected to what is known as the iodine-fuming method, which simply means flowing iodine fumes, which are developed by what is known as an iodine-fuming gun--it is a very simple affair, in which there are a couple of tubes attached to each other, having in one of them iodine crystals. And by simply blowing through one end, you get iodine fumes.
The iodine fumes are brought in as close contact to the surface as possible And if there are any prints which contain certain fatty material or protein material, the iodine fumes simply discolor it to a sort of brownish color. And of course such prints as are developed are photographed for record purposes.
That was done in this case here, but no latent prints were developed.
The next step then was to try an additional method, by chemicals. This was subsequently processed by a 3-percent solution of silver nitrate. The processing with silver nitrate resulted in developing two latent prints. One is what we call a latent palmprint, and the other is what we call a latent fingerprint.

<>

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, Mr. Latona, looking at that bag I see that almost all of it is an extremely dark brown color, except that there are patches of a lighter brown, a manila-paper brown. Could you explain why there are these two colors on the bag?
Mr. LATONA. Yes. The dark portions of the paper bag are where the silver nitrate has taken effect.


Ergo; the photograph showing the blanket and the bag together was either taken prior to 7:30 a.m. November 23, 1963 or during Stombaugh's examination


How do you figure that?

Online Gary Craig

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 113
  • The human mind is our fundamental resource. JFK
Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #682 on: February 14, 2018, 05:16:42 PM »
No fibers were found on the TSBD Carcano from the blanket it was allegedly wrapped in for months.
 
How did fibers, allegedly from that blanket, get into/onto the TSBD 6th floor homemade guncase?




Online Tom Sorensen

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 215
Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #683 on: February 14, 2018, 05:38:58 PM »
Easy peasy lemon squeezy...

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, let me ask you a hypothetical question, Mr. Stombaugh. First, I hand you Commission Exhibit 139, which consists of a rifle found on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository Building, and I ask you, if the rifle had lain in the blanket, which is 140, and were then put inside the bag, 142, could it have picked up fibers from the blanket and transferred them to the bag?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. Yes.

Online Gary Craig

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 113
  • The human mind is our fundamental resource. JFK
Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #684 on: February 14, 2018, 06:00:52 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Easy peasy lemon squeezy...

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, let me ask you a hypothetical question, Mr. Stombaugh. First, I hand you Commission Exhibit 139, which consists of a rifle found on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository Building, and I ask you, if the rifle had lain in the blanket, which is 140, and were then put inside the bag, 142, could it have picked up fibers from the blanket and transferred them to the bag?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. Yes.

So all the fibers transferred from the blanket to the rifle, in the months that it was wrapped in the blanket,

are transferred to the homemade guncase?

Leaving none on the rifle?

LOL

Coming next, circular reasoning.


« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 06:14:11 PM by Gary Craig »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #684 on: February 14, 2018, 06:00:52 PM »


Online Tom Sorensen

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 215
Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #685 on: February 14, 2018, 07:25:48 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
So all the fibers transferred from the blanket to the rifle, in the months that it was wrapped in the blanket,

are transferred to the homemade guncase?

Leaving none on the rifle?

LOL

Coming next, circular reasoning.

I doubt it, but it was a hypothetical question and Stombaugh had to answer "yes" so Eisenberg got what he wanted from his expert witness.

That's how the WC operated.

Online Gary Craig

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 113
  • The human mind is our fundamental resource. JFK
Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #686 on: February 14, 2018, 08:24:33 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I doubt it, but it was a hypothetical question and Stombaugh had to answer "yes" so Eisenberg got what he wanted from his expert witness.

That's how the WC operated.

"That's how the WC operated."

Yup
SOP

Online Walt Cakebread

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 442
Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #687 on: February 14, 2018, 08:53:07 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
So all the fibers transferred from the blanket to the rifle, in the months that it was wrapped in the blanket,

are transferred to the homemade guncase?

Leaving none on the rifle?

LOL

Coming next, circular reasoning.

Fibers....Plural???    There was only ONE fiber found in the paper sack.....

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #687 on: February 14, 2018, 08:53:07 PM »


Offline John Anderson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 148
Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #688 on: February 14, 2018, 09:00:20 PM »
Maybe carrying it around upside down wasn't a great idea.

Offline Tim Nickerson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 156
Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #689 on: February 14, 2018, 09:08:21 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Fibers....Plural???    There was only ONE fiber found in the paper sack.....

Mr. STOMBAUGH. I removed the debris from the inside of the bag by opening the bag as best I could, and tapping it and knocking the debris on to a small piece of white paper, and I found a very small number of fibers. Upon examining these fibers, I found a single brown, delustered, viscose fiber and several light-green cotton fibers from the inside of the bag. I also found a minute particle of wood and a single particle of a waxy substance.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Oswald's Jacket
« Reply #689 on: February 14, 2018, 09:08:21 PM »