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Author Topic: LNers: Your Views of the Missed Shot?  (Read 2012 times)

Online Steve Taylor

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Re: LNers: Your Views of the Missed Shot?
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2018, 11:02:51 AM »
Going back to the topic.  A shot landing near Tague, fired by LHO would have been wildly inaccurate, marked in red in the photo.  The only time frame he would have been able to fire a reasonable shot would have been late in the Z film when the limo was well past the Ft. Worth sign. 
  On the other hand, a line of sight from the fire escape area of the Dal-Tex to the limo (in black),  is easily easily seen for the timing of all shots suspected by the readers.   

« Last Edit: September 09, 2018, 11:58:37 AM by Steve Taylor »

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Re: LNers: Your Views of the Missed Shot?
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2018, 11:02:51 AM »


Offline Gary Craig

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Re: LNers: Your Views of the Missed Shot?
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2018, 03:08:26 PM »
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 ::)
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Online Joe Elliott

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Re: LNers: Your Views of the Missed Shot?
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2018, 03:13:36 PM »
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Going back to the topic.  A shot landing near Tague, fired by LHO would have been wildly inaccurate, marked in red in the photo.  The only time frame he would have been able to fire a reasonable shot would have been late in the Z film when the limo was well past the Ft. Worth sign. 
  On the other hand, a line of sight from the fire escape area of the Dal-Tex to the limo (in black),  is easily easily seen for the timing of all shots suspected by the readers.   


Your’s is not a LN scenario. But ignoring that, how high up the fire escape of the Dal-Tex building would you think the shooter would be?
Level with which floor?
He needs to be high enough to clear the follow up car with the standing Secret Service agents on the running boards.

Online Jerry Organ

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Re: LNers: Your Views of the Missed Shot?
« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2018, 03:54:15 PM »
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Going back to the topic.  A shot landing near Tague, fired by LHO would have been wildly inaccurate, marked in red in the photo.  The only time frame he would have been able to fire a reasonable shot would have been late in the Z film when the limo was well past the Ft. Worth sign. 
  On the other hand, a line of sight from the fire escape area of the Dal-Tex to the limo (in black),  is easily easily seen for the timing of all shots suspected by the readers.
LNers in general don't claim the curb strike was a directly fired shot from the SN. The only exception I know of is Edward Bauer, whom I recall (though I'm not sure) proposed Oswald's first shot was a "sighting-in" shot fired there.



I believe most researchers see the Tague curb strike as originating from a ricochet off the pavement (upper Elm) or a fragment from the head shot. The latter was first proposed by Josiah Thompson in his magnum opus Six Seconds in Dallas.

Online Steve Taylor

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Re: LNers: Your Views of the Missed Shot?
« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2018, 04:40:51 PM »
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LNers in general don't claim the curb strike was a directly fired shot from the SN. The only exception I know of is Edward Bauer, whom I recall (though I'm not sure) proposed Oswald's first shot was a "sighting-in" shot fired there.



I believe most researchers see the Tague curb strike as originating from a ricochet off the pavement (upper Elm) or a fragment from the head shot. The latter was first proposed by Josiah Thompson in his magnum opus Six Seconds in Dallas.

Thanks for the info Jerry.  Then why was there a need to change from the FBI 3 shot scenario to the SBT with 2 hits and 1 miss in Tagues direction?  The WC seems to disagree with your theory. 

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Re: LNers: Your Views of the Missed Shot?
« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2018, 04:40:51 PM »


Online Steve Taylor

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Re: LNers: Your Views of the Missed Shot?
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2018, 04:53:59 PM »
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Your’s is not a LN scenario. But ignoring that, how high up the fire escape of the Dal-Tex building would you think the shooter would be?
Level with which floor?
He needs to be high enough to clear the follow up car with the standing Secret Service agents on the running boards.

I've got a suspected shooter on the 2nd floor, and it looks like he threaded the needle or possibly shot on the right hand side of the SS car.  It used to be clear to me that 2 shooters are on the 3rd floor, but last year I was told by a photo analyst that I'm wrong.  Not quite sure on that one now.  Zapruder's 4th floor and above also have some windows visible in different photos.

 

Offline Nicholas Turner

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Re: LNers: Your Views of the Missed Shot?
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2018, 05:04:24 PM »
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I've got a suspected shooter on the 2nd floor, and it looks like he threaded the needle or possibly shot on the right hand side of the SS car.  It used to be clear to me that 2 shooters are on the 3rd floor, but last year I was told by a photo analyst that I'm wrong.  Not quite sure on that one now.  Zapruder's 4th floor and above also have some windows visible in different photos.



Why do you think those are 'shooters'?

Online Jerry Organ

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Re: LNers: Your Views of the Missed Shot?
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2018, 05:32:01 PM »
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Thanks for the info Jerry.  Then why was there a need to change from the FBI 3 shot scenario to the SBT with 2 hits and 1 miss in Tagues direction?  The WC seems to disagree with your theory.
The Tague trajectory graphic I provided is an illustration of the claim that the curb strike originated from the head shot metal fragmentation.

The WCR could not decide between the two explanations in my post.

    "Even if it were caused by a bullet fragment, the mark on the
     south curb of Main Street cannot be identified conclusively
     with any of the three shots fired. Under the circumstances it
     might have come from the bullet which hit the President's head,
     or it might have been a product of the fragmentation of the
     missed shot upon hitting some other object in the area."

So you now can fault them for not concluding anything about the Tague hit, just as you would fault them if they had concluded something.

With reference to your graphic, LNers generally do not contend the Tague hit was a direct-line shot from the SN window.

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Re: LNers: Your Views of the Missed Shot?
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2018, 05:32:01 PM »


Offline Dillon Rankine

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Re: LNers: Your Views of the Missed Shot?
« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2018, 07:33:19 PM »
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Then why was there a need to change from the FBI 3 shot scenario to the SBT with 2 hits and 1 miss in Tagues direction?

The FBI initially believed (upon accepting Tague’s story) that it was a result of headshot fragmentation, and a few variations of a SBT were proposed at the autopsy. The SBT stands for a few reasons, chief them was the existence of only two bullets and the torso wounds to JFK. Despite weirdly prevalent assertions to the contrary, a “shallow back wound” is physically impossible.   

Online Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: LNers: Your Views of the Missed Shot?
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2018, 12:18:41 AM »
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The FBI initially believed (upon accepting Tague’s story) that it was a result of headshot fragmentation, and a few variations of a SBT were proposed at the autopsy. The SBT stands for a few reasons, chief them was the existence of only two bullets and the torso wounds to JFK. Despite weirdly prevalent assertions to the contrary, a “shallow back wound” is physically impossible.   
Which "variation" of the SBT was proposed during the autopsy? I've never read that happened. From what I've read the autopsy doctors never considered the wounds on Connally. Why would they? Their job was to determine the cause of the injuries to JFK not Connally. Moreover, Humes said (the JAMA article, for example) they couldn't figure out where the bullet that entered the back went to. It wasn't until the next morning when he called Perry and learned that the tracheotomy covered a wound to the throat that he concluded it had exited there.

The FBI summary report didn't have access to the autopsy report and doesn't mention a bullet exiting JFK's throat/neck (as we've asked critics of the SBT: where did that go?). They relied on the Sibert and O'Neill account of the autopsy, an account which was incomplete and didn't mention a throat exit wound (because the autopsy doctors didn't consider it during the autopsy). From that the FBI concluded two shots hit JFK and a separate shot hit Connally. No SBT at all. No missed shots. Three shots, three hits.

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« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 03:23:38 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

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Re: LNers: Your Views of the Missed Shot?
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2018, 12:18:41 AM »