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Author Topic: Roger Craig  (Read 101111 times)

Offline Jack Trojan

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Re: Roger Craig
« Reply #456 on: February 21, 2021, 09:19:01 AM »
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So what if the rifle is laying on its side?

Ok, so recognize that Studebaker had just taken an in situ photo...and you acknowledge that the rifle was laying on it's side with the leather sling up.   But the official in situ photo shows the rifle in a different location and standing with the scope up....
That means the official in situ photo is NOT the way the rifle was found and the official in situ photo is a fake.


No, it doesn't mean that. You don't know when the camera took the photos and when Alyea shot the footage. Obviously, Day had cleared a path to the rifle and moved some boxes and laid down the rifle by that point. He wasn't reaching down to handle the rifle for the 1st time. Therefore the Alyea footage can not be used to prove that the in-situ photos were faked.

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This footage was clearly shot after Day had already moved the boxes to expose the rifle and after the photographer took his 2 photos.

Yes.... the BOXES had to be moved because Deputy Boone found the rifle at the bottom of a chasm of books ...BUT.. everybody who saw the rifle swore that nobody touched the rifle prior to Lt grabbing the leather strap and picking it up. And we can see with our own eyes that this is true. 

We know no such thing. The footage can't tell you that. Maybe the footage cut from the film could tell you that, but not "as is". You have to get past this. Testimony is worthless from the conspirators and you think Craig was a king kong bullspombleprofglidnoctobunster. So toss out all the witnesses because you can't believe any of them. Also, the Alyea film was missing footage and heavily edited by the conspirators so why do you keep treating it like gospel? The photos could very well have been taken prior to the shooting and the missing Alyea footage might have shown the rifle in-situ on its side. This is why they may have cut that scene from the film. But they also cut it out because it showed the strap that was missing from the in-situ photos.

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The point is:.... This site at the bottom of a chasm of books was 15 feet 4 inches from the north wall, and down in a hole that was over four feet deep. No mortal man could have dashed through that aisle ( formed by boxes of books) at the top of the stairs and hastily dumped that rifle as he fled.   The Alyea footage proves that the DPD were lying, and creating fake photos to frame Lee Oswald.

Maybe the cut footage would prove the DPD were lying but not the way it is now. The missing footage might have shown Day moving the boxes to get at the MC and laying the rifle on its side so he could grab the strap. The footage we see cuts in just as he's picking up the rifle from its side, but it doesn't mean it is cutting in as he is touching the rifle for the 1st time. The footage has no time reference relative to the in-situ photos so it proves nothing. Close but no cigar.

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That rifle had to have been placed on the floor and then the boxes stacked around it PRIOR to the murder. That carcano was never fired that day....   And yet the FBI swore that it was the murder weapon.... 

And THAT is....... "THE REST OF THE STORY!" .................... END

One of the rare times I agree with you. How's your re-enactment coming? I want to know how Oswald hid the strap from view as he ditched the rifle among the boxes as depicted in the in-situ photos. It would be a better use of your time because you've reached a dead end otherwise. Move along folks, no proof here.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2021, 09:27:09 AM by Jack Trojan »

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Re: Roger Craig
« Reply #456 on: February 21, 2021, 09:19:01 AM »


Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Roger Craig
« Reply #457 on: February 21, 2021, 10:43:14 AM »
I already read that article and used to think Alyea was just a pawn in the coup until I realized the extent of the DPD's involvement. There is no way in hell Fritz would let a freelance photographer film anything without an agreement ahead of time that Fritz called all the shots and had total control over the crime scene. You only get that from complicity. Alyea was allowed to criticize the DPD with unfounded suspicions to give himself some plausible deniability and to distance himself from the conspiracy. But rest assured Fritz must have had Alyea under his thumb the whole time, otherwise, why wasn't Alyea allowed to keep his film? What option did Alyea have but to deny any involvement and play the inadvertent pawn role.

Your reasoning - that Alyea was 'allowed' to report the criminal negligence of Fritz and his men because he was under Fritz's thumb - doesn't stand up to the mildest scrutiny and, to my ears, screams Tin Foil.

"There is no way in hell Fritz would let a freelance photographer film anything without an agreement ahead of time"

Alyea was in there before Fritz arrived. When, exactly did Alyea thrash out this deal with Fritz about entering the TSBD? Before the shooting?

"But rest assured Fritz must have had Alyea under his thumb the whole time, otherwise, why wasn't Alyea allowed to keep his film?"

Have you really read the article? In it Alyea states:

"I took the film from my camera, placed it back into its metal can, wrapped the tape around it, and tossed it to our News Editor, A. J. L'Hoste, who was waiting outside with the other newsmen who were not allowed in the building. A. J. raced it to the television station which was about three blocks away. About fifteen minutes later the world saw the murder weapon, where it was found and pictures of the crime lab people dusting it for fingerprints, and the shell casings that once housed those bullets. They also saw how the assassin prepared for his ambush and the view he had of the killing zone."

What makes you think he wasn't allowed to keep his film?
None of your reasoning about Alyea and his presence in the TSBD makes any sense and you seem to have a very loose grasp of some key events.


Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Roger Craig
« Reply #458 on: February 21, 2021, 11:00:13 AM »
So what if the rifle is laying on its side? This footage was clearly shot after Day had already moved the boxes to expose the rifle and after the photographer took his 2 photos. Day probably laid the rifle down then, but not necessarily. We need to find out if Alyea took any footage of the rifle in-situ and how it compares to the 2 photos. Otherwise, the footage of Day picking up the rifle is useless to us.

We need to compare the missing Alyea footage with the 2 photos to see if the rifle is laying on its side, but that doesn't matter nearly as much as what happened to the strap?

I found some other Alyea footage and made a compilation of any related to the rifle and it's location but in was too big to download.
Below is the opening of it. In it we see Fritz walking into the small area where the rifle is located. There is one shot, quite poor quality, showing the rifle in position near his feet. It is in the upright position:



in the article I posted Alyea states:

"Still pictures were taken of the positioning of the rifle, then Lt. Day slid it out from its hiding place and held it up for all of us to see. The world has seen my shot of this many times."

In the Alyea footage we don't see Day sliding the rifle out of it's hiding place. We just see him picking up the rifle after he has done so.

What happened to the strap?




The strap is clearly on the side facing away from us and out of sight. No real mystery.

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Re: Roger Craig
« Reply #458 on: February 21, 2021, 11:00:13 AM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Roger Craig
« Reply #459 on: February 21, 2021, 02:57:20 PM »
Your reasoning - that Alyea was 'allowed' to report the criminal negligence of Fritz and his men because he was under Fritz's thumb - doesn't stand up to the mildest scrutiny and, to my ears, screams Tin Foil.

"There is no way in hell Fritz would let a freelance photographer film anything without an agreement ahead of time"

Alyea was in there before Fritz arrived. When, exactly did Alyea thrash out this deal with Fritz about entering the TSBD? Before the shooting?

"But rest assured Fritz must have had Alyea under his thumb the whole time, otherwise, why wasn't Alyea allowed to keep his film?"

Have you really read the article? In it Alyea states:

"I took the film from my camera, placed it back into its metal can, wrapped the tape around it, and tossed it to our News Editor, A. J. L'Hoste, who was waiting outside with the other newsmen who were not allowed in the building. A. J. raced it to the television station which was about three blocks away. About fifteen minutes later the world saw the murder weapon, where it was found and pictures of the crime lab people dusting it for fingerprints, and the shell casings that once housed those bullets. They also saw how the assassin prepared for his ambush and the view he had of the killing zone."

What makes you think he wasn't allowed to keep his film?
None of your reasoning about Alyea and his presence in the TSBD makes any sense and you seem to have a very loose grasp of some key events.

criminal negligence of Fritz and his men

It wasn't "negligence"....   Fritz was a key conspirator....   He was a bit mentally deranged, and truly believed that JFK was a genuine threat to the country that he had grown up in.    Which was the old south of segregation, and white supremacy,
It would not surprise me if it were revealed that Fritz was a leading member of General Walker's Minute Men, or the KKK.
Since Fritz, and many other wealthy, powerful men, in Dallas  believed that they were great patriots and they had saved the(ir)  country with the murder of  John Kennedy they saw no crime in their actions.   

I agree Dan,  Jack has preconceived ideas and he refuses to accept facts....I doubt that he will ever give up the idea that a 7.65 mauser was the rifle that Boone and Weitzman found.  It's a pity that folks latch onto some BS and build a whole case on the BS.....   However, I strongly believe that the government knew that there would be people who would construct such BS cases and encouraged that ( Many "history channel" stories about the coup d e'tat, are based on BS) 

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Roger Craig
« Reply #460 on: February 21, 2021, 03:08:02 PM »
I found some other Alyea footage and made a compilation of any related to the rifle and it's location but in was too big to download.
Below is the opening of it. In it we see Fritz walking into the small area where the rifle is located. There is one shot, quite poor quality, showing the rifle in position near his feet. It is in the upright position:



in the article I posted Alyea states:

"Still pictures were taken of the positioning of the rifle, then Lt. Day slid it out from its hiding place and held it up for all of us to see. The world has seen my shot of this many times."

In the Alyea footage we don't see Day sliding the rifle out of it's hiding place. We just see him picking up the rifle after he has done so.

What happened to the strap?




The strap is clearly on the side facing away from us and out of sight. No real mystery.

The strap is clearly on the side facing away from us and out of sight. No real mystery.

Dan what is it going to take to convince you that the official in situ phots are fakes?

In the Alyea shot that shows the carcano lying on it's right side the leather strap is right there at Day's finger tips, on top of the stock.

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Re: Roger Craig
« Reply #460 on: February 21, 2021, 03:08:02 PM »


Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Roger Craig
« Reply #461 on: February 21, 2021, 04:25:00 PM »
The strap is clearly on the side facing away from us and out of sight. No real mystery.

Dan what is it going to take to convince you that the official in situ phots are fakes?

In the Alyea shot that shows the carcano lying on it's right side the leather strap is right there at Day's finger tips, on top of the stock.

The in-situ rifle photos are not fake Walt.
Alyea filmed the rifle in the upright position before Day was anywhere near it.
Day slid the rifle out from beneath the overhanging boxes before he picked it up.
We don't see the bit where Day slid the rifle out, we just see the bit where he picked it up.

No offence Walt, but you don not have one grain of evidence the photos were faked.
Absolutely nothing.
But it doesn't change what you believe.

You can repeat the line about the Alyea film all you want.

Walt, what's it going to take to convince you that you are wrong about the in-situ rifle photos being fake?

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Roger Craig
« Reply #462 on: February 21, 2021, 07:41:15 PM »
The in-situ rifle photos are not fake Walt.
Alyea filmed the rifle in the upright position before Day was anywhere near it.
Day slid the rifle out from beneath the overhanging boxes before he picked it up.
We don't see the bit where Day slid the rifle out, we just see the bit where he picked it up.

No offence Walt, but you don not have one grain of evidence the photos were faked.
Absolutely nothing.
But it doesn't change what you believe.

You can repeat the line about the Alyea film all you want.

What is happening when Alyea's clip begins...

Detective Studebaker is perched atop the stack of boxes after photographing the rifle in situ.


Then about two to three seconds later the rifle is clearly visible, just beyond Lt Day's left elbow. The light colored metal butt plate on the butt of the rifle is clearly visible and it is in the horizontal position.  The leather sling is right there on top  ( left side of the stock up) at Lt Day's  finger tips and he grabs that leather strap.   then he picks up the carcano and lifts it into the air.

Walt, what's it going to take to convince you that you are wrong about the in-situ rifle photos being fake?
« Last Edit: February 21, 2021, 07:55:31 PM by Walt Cakebread »

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Re: Roger Craig
« Reply #462 on: February 21, 2021, 07:41:15 PM »


Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Roger Craig
« Reply #463 on: February 21, 2021, 08:17:17 PM »


As has already been explained, the part of the Alyea film I posted shows Fritz stood in the area where the rifle is. One clip, although poor quality, shows the rifle in an upright position at Fritz's feet.
Alyea states he sees Day slide the rifle out from under the boxes before picking it up. The bit where Day slides the rifle out has not been filmed, just Day picking up the rifle.

This is the footage I've cobbled together from various Alyea clips:

« Last Edit: February 21, 2021, 08:21:52 PM by Dan O'meara »