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Author Topic: Roger Craig  (Read 104612 times)

Offline Paul J Cummings

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Re: Roger Craig
« Reply #696 on: June 17, 2022, 05:38:53 PM »
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You're still not answering the question. You have officers identifying with affidavits and yet Lt. Day decides it's not a Mauser. The most important piece of evidence tying Oswald takes the next day to identify. Not enough FBI people in Dallas so they sent it to Washington. Classic.

:D

Mr. BELIN. At what time, if you know, did you release the rifle to the FBI?
Mr. DAY. 11:45 p.m. the rifle was released or picked up by them and taken from the office.
Mr. BELIN. Was that on November 22?
Mr. DAY. November 22, 1963.


JohnM

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Re: Roger Craig
« Reply #696 on: June 17, 2022, 05:38:53 PM »


Offline John Mytton

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Re: Roger Craig
« Reply #697 on: June 17, 2022, 05:54:39 PM »
You're still not answering the question. You have officers identifying with affidavits and yet Lt. Day decides it's not a Mauser. The most important piece of evidence tying Oswald takes the next day to identify. Not enough FBI people in Dallas so they sent it to Washington. Classic.

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You're still not answering the question.

Yes I did, you asked "why did it take until the NEXT DAY to identify by the FBI?" and I quoted LT Day saying that the FBI only received Oswald's rifle @11:45 PM,

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You have officers identifying with affidavits and yet Lt. Day decides it's not a Mauser.

Sorry but the photographic evidence over rules any affidavit.
Btw it's just as easy to setup Oswald with a Mauser, why have two rifles?

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The most important piece of evidence tying Oswald takes the next day to identify.

Pay attention, I posted a video from the 22nd where Lt Day said the rifle was Italian and 6.5.

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Classic.

Yes, that's the word that comes to my mind.

JohnM


Offline Paul J Cummings

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Re: Roger Craig
« Reply #698 on: June 17, 2022, 06:08:28 PM »
Photographic evidence. Another classic take. Was Day there when it was found? What time did Lt. Day arrive in the TSBD?? Sorry but your take on photographic evidence is a lame and affidavits would rule in court over the photographic evidence. The alleged Snipers nest was already tainted by Fritz who picked up the bullets and threw them down. Does the photographic evidence show that? Does your photographic evidence displayed on the pictures you posted say Carcano? Why did it take so long to identify the rifle the one linked to Oswald. Given the time frame when taken out of the TSBD why so late in identifying the rifle. I guess the FBI must have looked for more important evidence.

Yes I did, you asked "why did it take until the NEXT DAY to identify by the FBI?" and I quoted LT Day saying that the FBI only received Oswald's rifle @11:45 PM,

Sorry but the photographic evidence over rules any affidavit.
Btw it's just as easy to setup Oswald with a Mauser, why have two rifles?

Pay attention, I posted a video from the 22nd where Lt Day said the rifle was Italian and 6.5.

Yes, that's the word that comes to my mind.

JohnM
« Last Edit: June 17, 2022, 06:15:31 PM by Paul J Cummings »

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Re: Roger Craig
« Reply #698 on: June 17, 2022, 06:08:28 PM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Roger Craig
« Reply #699 on: June 17, 2022, 08:12:49 PM »
“Oswald’s Italian Carcano”. LOL.

Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: Roger Craig
« Reply #700 on: June 18, 2022, 03:04:08 PM »
The Argentine national crest was ground off by the Argentine government before export. The Argentines had a law requiring the removal of national markings from arms before they could be sold. Almost any example of a model 91 you can find will have been put to the grinder.  I've never seen one that hasn't been scalped.

BTW, the Gun Control Act of 1968 requires that any firearm imported into the US has the weapon clearly and permanently marked with the caliber. The caliber stamp on the pictured example may mark it as such a "post-import" rifle. As a rule, those old military rifles didn't have any caliber markings, and didn't need them. The model 38 and 91/38  Carcanos are a rare exception to this, due to WWII breaking out at a very inconvenient time for the Italian army.

Never have seen an 1891 scrubbed, let alone so crudely, but way fonder of the 1909's than 1891's. An 1891 is considered an antique firearm with antique metallurgy for firing premodern gunpowder. Also, it seems like an odd thing to do when it still clearly states Mauser Modelo Agentine 1891 on the side of the receiver. Maybe it is just internet nonsense.

There was an estimated 125 million K98's manufactured by many countries. Most German manufactured K98's have the numbers 7.9 , 7.91, 7.1, or 7.2  stamped on the barrel  shank, where the barrel screws into the receiver, these numbers designate bore size or caliber. Also, most K98 type rifles have a disc on the stock that indicates the caliber.

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Re: Roger Craig
« Reply #700 on: June 18, 2022, 03:04:08 PM »


Online Mitch Todd

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Re: Roger Craig
« Reply #701 on: June 19, 2022, 01:49:06 AM »
Was Craig asked about the Mauser stamp? No. Witnesses directly answered the questions they were asked under oath.
Witnesses are allowed to completely answer the questions put to them to the best of their ability. Had Craig actually seen the word "Mauser" stamped on the barrel of the rifle, there was nothing preventing him from saying so. Further, Craig was a prosecution witness at the trial, and had been working with Garrsion and NODA the staff for about a year before the trial. Had he told them then that he'd seen the word "Mauser" on the rifle, they would have asked him at the trial. It was exactly the sort of thing they wanted to present. So Craig's failure to mention seeing the stamp during his testimony at the Shaw trial is damning no matter how you slice it.   

That's not true. In 1968, Criag stated there was a Mauser. So, how is that "changing his story"?
In the 68 interview, Craig said that he was told by Ft Worth Star Telegram reporter Thayer Waldo that a Mauser had been found on the roof. He did not claim to have seen this rifle himself, so it cannot be a rifle on the 6th floor.

Waldo, in turn, said that he was told of the roof Mauser by someone at Dallas City Hall the afternoon of the assassination. There is some variation as to exactly who was the original source. In the end, it's just hearsay hearing what hearsay says. Whatever it is, it's not Craig claiming to have seen a Mauser on November 22.

And Craig said he was fired for "knowing too much" and said "he was under a lot of pressure".
Non sequitur. What Craig claimed to be the rationale used to fire him has nothing to do with whether he saw "Mauser" stamped into the rifle barrel. 

How do you know he wasn't told to "shut up about it" and waited to tell his story when he had the opportunity to?
How do you know that he'd been told to shut up about the rifle in his affidavit, FBI interviews, or WC testimony? He definitely didn't fail to talk about the rifle in the LAFP interview or in his cooperation with the Garrison investigation. And he certainly brought the rifle up in When they Kill a President. But not one peep about a seeing a Mauser stamp until after all of those opportunities had already passed by.

The fact is we have two law enforcement officers who both stated they witnessed a Mauser. Weitzman changed his story. 
Craig changed his story, too. More than once. That's the point.

Wrong with a Mauser stamp embedded on the rifle? He changed his story.     
Where did Weitzman claim that he saw a stamp on the rifle?

You're trying to turn Weitzman into a bumbling fool who had no idea what he was selling.
You have yet to show that Weitzman ever sold, handled, or had any substantial experience with 7.65mm Mauser rifles.

A law enforcement officer who handled these weapons in his own business would have a good idea of the rifles he was selling.   
Where did Weitzman state that the business was "his" or that he "handled these weapons?"

Weitzman had an advantage over other law enforcement officers by handling these types of rifles in his business.
Again, where did Weitzman state that the business was "his" or that he "handled these weapons?"

No, you're trying to make us believe that Weitzman and law enforcement officers are like The Three Stooges and have no idea what they are doing.

No. What I'm saying is that law enforcement officers aren't firearms identification experts. And that Craig told mutually-contradictory stories about the rifle that undermine any claim he made about it.

Did two law enforcement officers state they witnessed a Mauser? Yes they did.
Which goes to prove that if you ignore the great bulk of information surrounding the discovery of the rifle, you can say something silly.

Online Mitch Todd

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Re: Roger Craig
« Reply #702 on: June 19, 2022, 05:40:09 AM »
Never have seen an 1891 scrubbed, let alone so crudely, but way fonder of the 1909's than 1891's. An 1891 is considered an antique firearm with antique metallurgy for firing premodern gunpowder. Also, it seems like an odd thing to do when it still clearly states Mauser Modelo Agentine 1891 on the side of the receiver. Maybe it is just internet nonsense.

There was an estimated 125 million K98's manufactured by many countries. Most German manufactured K98's have the numbers 7.9 , 7.91, 7.1, or 7.2  stamped on the barrel  shank, where the barrel screws into the receiver, these numbers designate bore size or caliber. Also, most K98 type rifles have a disc on the stock that indicates the caliber.
You must be one lucky guy. I've seen upwards of twenty model 91s, and all of them had the crest ground off. Including the one that I actually own. The bit about the Argies enacting a law requiring the removal of the national crest from firearms before export is pretty well established. For instance, look at this overview published by some guys who know a thing or two about rifles:

"Collectors in the U.S., though, often find the national crest ground off of Argentine 1891 Mausers. This was done in the aftermath of the Chaco War of 1935, which pitted Bolivia and Paraguay against one another in a vicious albeit brief struggle for control of South America’s resource-rich Chaco Boreal. Argentina provided Paraguay with a large number of Model 1891 Mausers during the conflict in a move that jeopardized its relationship with Bolivia. The presence of unground national crests made it impossible to deny Argentina’s direct support for Paraguay, so after the war Argentina instituted a law requiring the removal of the national crest from any gun leaving the country. Although the government in Buenos Aires later dropped this requirement, by then most of the Argentine 1891 Mausers had been ground, and this accounts for why it is rare to find one with the crest intact. "

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/content/the-1891-argentine-mauser-a-history/

The requirement that firearms imported into the US after 1968 are required to have the caliber permanently and indelibly marked is well known and is documented at Wikipedia, among other places.

As for the caliber stamps on Mausers, some have them, others do not.  I'm not a Mauser maven, and I don't know whether those stamps were placed there during manufacturing, during export, or during import. Do not assume that any engraved mark on an old firearm was put there on manufacture.

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Re: Roger Craig
« Reply #702 on: June 19, 2022, 05:40:09 AM »


Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Roger Craig
« Reply #703 on: June 21, 2022, 12:58:31 AM »
Photographic evidence. Another classic take. Was Day there when it was found? What time did Lt. Day arrive in the TSBD?? Sorry but your take on photographic evidence is a lame and affidavits would rule in court over the photographic evidence. The alleged Snipers nest was already tainted by Fritz who picked up the bullets and threw them down. Does the photographic evidence show that? Does your photographic evidence displayed on the pictures you posted say Carcano? Why did it take so long to identify the rifle the one linked to Oswald. Given the time frame when taken out of the TSBD why so late in identifying the rifle. I guess the FBI must have looked for more important evidence.

Below is the Ayea footage of the rifle in situ and then being removed by Day for dusting.
It starts with Fritz entering the area where the rifle was discovered (Craig can be seen stood right in front of him) and the rifle is shown at his feet in an upright position. It shows Day removing the rifle and then dusting it for prints.
The rifle in the footage is indistinguishable from the Mannlicher Carcano Day is photographed leaving the TSBD with.
It is indistinguishable from the rifle Day holds aloft at the DPD and indistinguishable from the rifle that is now in the NA.
The rifle in the Alyea footage is a Mannlicher Carcano and not a Mauser.